- This topic has 20 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Those who have read (endured) many of my legion postings will have long since worked out that I am a bit of a lapsed lefty.
In my youth I was in the Labour Party Young Socialists (don’t hold it against me, we all believed in Father Christmas once) but a life spent seeing the Tories win most of the elections and Labour only get in when led by moderates like Harold Wilson and Tony Blair made me realise socialism is an utterly futile creed because the vast majority of the UK simply don’t want it.
Now I’m just a bit of a pinko, I thought Tony Blair was quite a good PM until Iraq, and I think Keir Starmer is a decent – but very boring – man.
I’d vote for him, but Christ I wouldn’t want to be trapped in a lift with him.
Anyway, every now and then someone comes along to remind me who I used to be in my youth.
First it was Jeremy Corbyn who confounded a lot of people (me included) in the 2017 Election in which he actually got more votes than Blair did in any of his three Election victories.
But May got more.
And Corbyn failed to build on 2017 and was toast in 2019.
Now it’s Mick Lynch stirring my conscience.
Lynch has wiped the floor with various media interviewers in recent days and is IMO clearly an intelligent articulate man, 16yo school leaver with a working class accent notwithstanding.
He’s instantly become the new cult hero of the left, who see him as everything Keir Starmer isn’t.
High inflation, industrial relations-dispute riven Britain is taking us back to the 1970s (it could only be worse if Gary Glitter was back at No 1) but I’d say Lynch is a lot smarter then the likes of Arthur Scargill back in the day.
What do other forumites think?
Will Lynch, like Sparks, be a one-hit wonder soon forgotten?
Or could he be an ABBA??!!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I first heard him on Radio 4 a few weeks ago; the programme is available here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017sxg
Top bloke; watching him dismantle all the journalists and Tories thrown his way this week has been a joy.
“Will Lynch, like Sparks, be a one-hit wonder soon forgotten?”
Sparks were not a one hit wonder, nor were they soon forgotten. In fact, they have never gone away and are still releasing new material.
Fair comment – I am aware they have maintained a cult following since the 1970s.
I should have found a better example.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"In fairness Ian I would have assumed that you had been listening to the radio on mute since the 1970s.
I haven’t seen much news lately but if Lynch is tearing all and sundry to bits, how much longer will be keep being invited on?
“In fairness Ian I would have assumed that you had been listening to the radio on mute since the 1970s.”
It’s a reasonable assumption tbf – I missed a trick there.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Well, he is getting a very rough ride on QT, right now.
He cannot accept that the railways are in a much different pos to 2 years ago.
This dispute, if it carries on, will lose Labour votes.Not sure. He wants Labour to be the party of the workers again but I think that whichever party is in power should represent and be there for everyone. Besides, all the ‘workers’ seem to vote Conservative these days (scratches head in puzzlement).And he’s an unrepentant brexiter even though I still haven’t noticed a single benefit that brexit has brought us. Maybe he’s spotted something that I haven’t.I’d watch him on QT tonight but the programme does my head in these days. I’ll wait till my soft leftie chums tell me how it went and watch it on catchup. I even chickened out of PMQT this week. My excuse is I’m on holiday and want to chill a bit. Although I will be waking up in the early hours to check the election results.
As I think I’ve said before, many in the UK think trade unionism and socialism (Marxism even) go hand in hand.
No Union fights for the wages and working conditions of ALL the workers, just a section of them, often in just one industry.
Nothing socialist/communist about that.
In the USA the perception of unions is very different – many are blue collar conservatives and some USA unions are affiliated to the Republicans, not the Democrats.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Besides, all the ‘workers’ seem to vote Conservative these days (scratches head in puzzlement”
The ‘workers’ voted Conservative in the 50s (Macmillan); many ‘workers’ voted Tory in the 80s (Thatcher). In the 70s the workers’ vote was split between Labour and the Tories – Wilson and Heath.
The only times since WW2 where the ‘workers’ overwhelmingly voted Labour was 1945, post WW2 and Blair in the late 90s, early 00s.
‘Today’ many ‘workers’ are in fact, self employed. The ‘traditional’ worker environ has changed vastly. Guys and gals who prob regard themselves as working class, like builders, roofers for example, are these days in a totally different working environ compared to 40+ years ago. Back then they would’ve been employed by a large construction co.
Today, many are self employed or working as an employee of a small local co.
Edit:
Public sector v private – employed public 5.5m, compared to 8.5m 1979.Big shift in working trends.
“No Union fights for the wages and working conditions of ALL the workers, just a section of them, often in just one industry.
Nothing socialist/communist about that.”
Very good point.
In fact, classical Marxists do not like trades unions very much. They see them as having sustained capitalism. By successfully campaigning for better wages and working conditions, they have disguised the way (as Marxists see it) the proletariat is exploited. This has prevented the proletariat from reaching the class consciousness necessary for revolution.
One thing a lot of people do not understand (it is on show again in this thread) is the British working class is not socialist or revolutionary. It has voted Labour in reasonably large numbers in the past because Labour was the party of the unions and they thought it would get them a better deal. But they are not interested in tearing down capitalism and do not share a much of the modern Left’s “progressive” agenda either.
As Wilts says, there has always been a strong element of working class Toryism. This goes hand in hand with working class patriotism. It is the middle classes which tend to be uncomfortable with that sort of thing. George Orwell observed many years ago how British intellectuals were ashamed of their country and would rather be seen robbing from a poor box than singing the National Anthem.
Britain has not changed much, in some ways.
We’d be better off doing away with any notion of a ‘class system’ altogether. It’s archaic rubbish.
It may be convenient to pigeonhole everybody into nice convenient groups but society is complicated and it doesn’t work like that.
Completely agree Richard. I was just using the language of old Marxist theory. Which I believe was a simplistic view of society back then and even more so now.
Anyway, since they have been mentioned, let’s have a bit of Sparks. Great facial expression work by Ron here:
Today, many are self employed or working as an employee of a small local co.
Happily accepting cash in hand as often as they can.
You don't know what's going on
You've been away for far too long
You can't come back and think you are still mineBrilliant stuff.
One thing I don’t quite understand about the idea of class is that you are, I assume, supposed to aspire to ‘better’. Yet ‘middle class’ is seen as a bit of an insult and people born ‘working class’ see it as a badge of honour. Despite being quite wealthy, you’ll still hear people say they are working class and proud.
Really good thread contributions, IMO, everyone – Sparks included!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.