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Speaking of fence-sitters
Good afternoon Sean
How can general watering not be a major issue relating to the fall of race-day drizzle on an artificially drenched course?
Good grief
Didn’t say it wasn’t relevant.
I said it wasn’t relvant to the going description that was given. The point was not how it came to be good to soft. The point was how it came to be given as good, good to firm in places when it was in fact good to soft.
If you don’t understand the distinction it’s easy to understand why you might struggle to differentiate between ‘fence sitting’ and views which happen to be different to your own.
Sean , I think your bloody good most times , but you dont like to offend anyone (and who can blame you really ) hence it appears you sit on the fence , with comments like strange etc relating to that stewards decision
It would be nice if occasionally you would weigh in with your own view
cheers
Ricky
Didn’t say it wasn’t relevant.
I said it wasn’t relvant to the going description that was given. The point was not how it came to be good to soft. The point was how it came to be given as good, good to firm in places when it was in fact good to soft.
If you don’t understand the distinction it’s easy to understand why you might struggle to differentiate between ‘fence sitting’ and views which happen to be different to your own.
Thanks for the reply.
I find it staggering you fail to make the connection.After high temperatures the ground was naturally quick, or g/f. It was then drenched due to a poorly understood and badly formulated directive from the BHA about "safe ground" that stems from National Hunt racing, not flat racing. Having drenched the course the going was then given as mostly good. When horses hit that turf, mud flies. It’s laughable the number of times this has happened. So we have hot weather and ground on the easy side of good. Drizzle on the day makes it good to soft.
I understand the distinction, but, unlike some, I fail to award it any merit whatsoever. How can the ground be known if it’s drenched before the day of race drizzle arrives?
Indeed.
I agree with original poster
Monday was awful. He reminds me of one of those overbearing loud types who expect you to laugh along with their chronically unfunny "jokes". Way too in your face
BB, I made the connection and invited mails on that aspect of it too but the focus was the communication of an accurate going description.
The going description was not accurate despite the fact that the course was walked after the mornings rain and prior to racing starting. It then took three races to be run before the going was updated. It should have been described as what it was, good to soft, prior to racing starting. How it came to be good to soft and the role of watering in that process is clearly a related issue but not the issue at hand. Inaccurate going descriptions do not just happen on courses that have been watered.
Ricky, where possible , I always give my own genuine view. I gave my own views on Dunguib’s defeat at Cheltenham and was of course accused of sitting on the fence because my view was not the same as the mob’s. Same thing happened with Straw Bear’s chasing debut at Exeter.
There are two areas where I don’t always give my own view. The first is where I think someone has been crap. I take the view that it is self evident that some riders and trainers are better than others and that there’s not a lot of merit in me pointing out examples where someone has been worse than their rivals. It happens in all competition and in all sports. I know bashing cock ups is popular with some but for me it makes little appeal.
The other time where I will be extremely conservative and guarded in my language is where there may be legal implications to what I’m saying. This is particularly the case where a possible offence has been committed. I am careful for two reasons. The first is that it is essential to be fair. I have no right to be judge and jury. The second reason is to try and avoid getting sued. That is a much more serious and real threat than people realise.
It’s easy to take cheap shots for a quick ego boost but it can be unfair when all the context is not available. When it comes to drawing attention to rides and performances that deserve scrutiny on the grounds of integrity I don’t think I’ve ever knowingly ducked one Ricky.
Fair enough Sean. Opportunity missed and a comprehensive differing of opinion it seems. It happens.
I’ve seen it. I’m sorry but the wrong questions are being asked and it ends up as merely a palliative exercise. The directive to water g/f ground is absurd and needs attacking without pause. Until then nothing will change. High-level trainers have criticised the policy; at Ascot some high class horses couldn’t even grip the turf properly because it had been watered (Genki, Ialysos). But who cares?
We have very different views on this I think BB. You have inspired me to knock up a piece on watering for my blog though, for which many thanks.
I’m usually more fun than this
But I can’t abide the watering directive and see no resolution in sight, so all humour leaves me. Used to be a major flat fan too, but have converted as a result of major issues with the flat game; love the jumps now.The Blog’s good, will certainly read what you think on there. Wishing you’d say "more" on camera is not a criticism, I imagine it is difficult to have to constantly check yourself due to legal parameters.
Regards the article, you do yourself a disservice, imo.
I clearly stated earlier the problem with taking a directive born – correctly – from welfare issues in the sphere of national hunt, and applying it – incorrectly – to the flat version. There are particular reasons why the National Hunt edict was promulgated, reasons that do not apply to the flat. Your flipping from flat watering because it’s sunny to the incident of Kauto Star in the Gold Cup merely confirms a major lack of understanding of the problem at hand.By avoiding the real issue, the tendency for dissenting voices against the farcical situation of measuring the extent to which courses are artificially drenched and – in some cases – made clearly unsafe (ref: Ayr) will only heighten.
What surprises me most on the whole issue is the basic lack of knowledge regarding the reasons underpinning the directive to produce watered g/f ground on the flat (in effect), and the feeble acquiescence in the absence of any concrete factual evidence that suggests such a directive is even necessary on the flat.
But I have more pressing things to attend to.
Fair enough Sean , and thanks for the reply , I withdraw my remark without any reservation
cheers
Ricky
lol, Sean.
I would expose and destroy the watering debacle in a matter of minutes given the chance…but I ain’t on the tele
Keep believing those lovely clerks…"lovely safe ground, it was sunny earlier so we had to water..how much? Oh I don’t know. I expect the jockeys will try and find the fast ground anyway…er…sorry…I mean the water was applied evenly but there was a wind and most of it went over the rails to be honest…oh balls…no wait…oh christ I don’t know…and it’s raining now.."
BRILLIANT SPORT
I am a big fan of Matt Chapman’s. The "yee-haas" and tomfoolery would be a real turn off if he did not know his stuff. But he does know his stuff, and instead it shows him in a good light as someone who does not take himself too seriously. It’s a long time since I thought he did anything other than enhance my watching of events.
- Total Posts 17716
What surprises me most on the whole issue is the basic lack of knowledge regarding the reasons underpinning the directive to produce watered g/f ground on the flat (in effect), and the feeble acquiescence in the absence of any concrete factual evidence that suggests such a directive is even necessary on the flat.
Read last week that Guy Harwood said he’d run horses at Bath whatever the going, as it didn’t jar horses up because they never water.
GH ought to know the price of fish, and it does make you wonder if the hosepipe is at all necessary for flat racing?
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