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TAPK – Legend in his own lunchtime – seemed to be getting over excited and I thought his exclamation marks were a little out of place! Do you see!
Mr P,looks like I touched a nerve with you eh? You wouldn’t be one of those Selfish Non compassionate sorts would you? This isn’t a topic I get over excited about,I do get excited about spotting a Cheltenham winner months in advance though.
Edit, just read the News reports of Lucys funeral today,it all happened very quickly but its transpired that she had it all planned out! A letter she wrote to loved ones tells how she had given up fighting this Ilness and describes herself as a ‘coward’………..That couldn’t be further from the truth.Anyone who goes to the trouble she obviously has planning this whole episode knowing exactly how she is going to ‘do the deed’is no coward.We can only imagine that poor girls plight,I suggest she’s done the bravest thing of all not the opposite!
I can see that anyone with a terminal illness could "bravely" end it all Gord, as there’s absolutely no coming back from the disease. Fail to see why it is "brave" to take your own life when possible (with help) to come through depression and be happy again. Would not want people with depression to think suicide is ever the "brave" thing to do. Though agree it should not be seen as the "cowards way out".
That Ginge is exactly the difference between terminal illnesses and Depression.Sadly we all know Lung cancer and other diseases are pretty much terminal and how individuals cope varies.Depression is associated with terminal illness and understandably so but there is a clear connection and is treated as such.Depression itself covers many aspects of Mental illness and its not a black and white disease that can be pigeon holed like physical illness.Depression can strike at anytime of ones life and can have root causes from Childhood abuse that sufferers have bottled all their adult lives,it can be caused by eating disorders,money problems,health problems,phobias and most commonly Drug abuse.Of course virtually anything that is Stress related but the symptoms of each individual aren’t found in a textbook and just because one person can recover from Depression doesn’t mean all can,that again seperates those with a broken leg to those with a
Broken Brain
.That is my point about being Brave rather than the old adage ‘Taking the Cowards way out’.When someone is dying from a physical illness they generally battle on knowing the inevitable will happen and they will be at peace.Sufferers of severe Depression aren’t dying but it can get to the stage where they see no light at the end of the tunnel and over a period of time they are giving up too but the big difference is for them to die means doing it themselves and thats why I respect their bravery.You imagine having to kill yourself.Just contemplating how is enough to make you cry but to go through with it tells you just how desperate these people are.Bloody Brave imo.
Mr P, this has been a difficult thread for many people – readers and writers.
I interpreted TAPK’s exclamation marks as driving home his initial points.
Anyway, I apologise for offending you. My reaction was hasty.
Joe
Let’s just leave it, guys. This thread is not the right place. Wish I’d not reacted to TAPAK’s post.
I interpreted TAPK’s exclamation marks as driving home his initial points.
Thats all I was trying to do Joe in my own inimitable way. I’m not as articulate as some but most get my point.
Mr Pilsen,you’re a pal of Naths so I have no beef with you.(Rapper).The contents of Lucy Stack’s letter were widely reported before they appeared on TRF.
I think if she had talked of, for example, a long fight against a terminal illness related to a physical condition, people would view the reporting of the comments in an entirely different way. I honestly believe the discomfort some people feel (and I felt a bit of it myself) when they read the quotations from her letter are a symptom of the uneasiness most of us feel when mental illness is discussed. And I believe that is mostly because people don’t understand it.
When you break taboos through education and understanding the fear surrounding them largely disappears. And mental illness is still a taboo subject in society at large.
It’s been quite humbling to see people relate some very private subject matter on this thread and I think it brings home just how prevalent mental illness is.
I didn’t know her, I don’t think many on here would have, but her story has clearly struck a resonant chord with many.
Edit, just read the News reports of Lucys funeral today,it all happened very quickly but its transpired that she had it all planned out! A letter she wrote to loved ones tells how she had given up fighting this Ilness and describes herself as a ‘coward’………..That couldn’t be further from the truth.Anyone who goes to the trouble she obviously has planning this whole episode knowing exactly how she is going to ‘do the deed’is no coward.We can only imagine that poor girls plight,I suggest she’s done the bravest thing of all not the opposite!
I can see that anyone with a terminal illness could "bravely" end it all Gord, as there’s absolutely no coming back from the disease. Fail to see why it is "brave" to take your own life when possible (with help) to come through depression and be happy again. Would not want people with depression to think suicide is ever the "brave" thing to do. Though agree it should not be seen as the "cowards way out".
That Ginge is exactly the difference between terminal illnesses and Depression.Sadly we all know Lung cancer and other diseases are pretty much terminal and how individuals cope varies.Depression is associated with terminal illness and understandably so but there is a clear connection and is treated as such.Depression itself covers many aspects of Mental illness and its not a black and white disease that can be pigeon holed like physical illness.Depression can strike at anytime of ones life and can have root causes from Childhood abuse that sufferers have bottled all their adult lives,it can be caused by eating disorders,money problems,health problems,phobias and most commonly Drug abuse.Of course virtually anything that is Stress related but the symptoms of each individual aren’t found in a textbook and just because one person can recover from Depression doesn’t mean all can,that again seperates those with a broken leg to those with a
Broken Brain
.That is my point about being Brave rather than the old adage ‘Taking the Cowards way out’.When someone is dying from a physical illness they generally battle on knowing the inevitable will happen and they will be at peace.Sufferers of severe Depression aren’t dying but it can get to the stage where they see no light at the end of the tunnel and over a period of time they are giving up too but the big difference is for them to die means doing it themselves and thats why I respect their bravery.You imagine having to kill yourself.Just contemplating how is enough to make you cry but to go through with it tells you just how desperate these people are.Bloody Brave imo.
Don’t think we are that far apart on this Gord.
Yes, I understand they are "desperate", and agree those that can’t find a way to live should not be thought badly of. Not everyone gets through severe Depression, but unlike terminal illness some will. Would not like anyone in the depths of Depression to think taking their life is the "brave" way out, when it ispossible
(not certain but "possible") they just might get through it and live a happy life.
Value Is Everything"Gingertipster":3vivgx3l wrote:
Don’t think we are that far apart on this Gord.
Yes, I understand they are "desperate", and agree those that can’t find a way to live should not be thought badly of. Not everyone gets through severe Depression, but unlike terminal illness some will. Would not like anyone in the depths of Depression to think taking their life is the "brave" way out, when it ispossible
(not certain but "possible") they just might get through it and live a happy life.
Sadly Ginge thats not the case,without going into the Scientifics of Clinical Depression the fact is once you are dependant on drugs,(related to alleviating symptoms of Depression) you are most unlikely to ever come off them and thats because once the brain cant create the Serotonin naturally that controls our urges and moods it has to be created through drugs.One persons required intake of medicine could be 10 x more than the next persons and yet they are both diagnosed with the term Depression,its a word used too loosely to tar everyone suffering various degrees of Mental illness. One of the most common issues surrounding those ill is frustration and thats because trying to find the correct drug to suit an individual with the correct doseage is like finding a needle in a haystack.The latest thing is to wean all dependants off Diezapan because of its addictive nature,those that have been on it for the past 20yrs are going through hell coming off it and will suffer serious cold turkey side effects,this is just one example of what your average Depressed person has to go through and I can certainly understand why when someone wakes up from a drug induced goodnights sleep they feel physically sick and literally cant get out of bed,then the realisation of ‘Oh **** its not all a bad dream’ scenario sinks in and the weight of anxiety hits them and stays with them all day affecting everything they can and mostly cant do like just running a bath thats why I do sympathise with those that just cant see a way out of this huge black hole.I have always said if you can get through your depression without the need of drugs you will come out a more understanding and wiser person,the key issue is nipping it in the bud and the first symptoms are fatigue,a feeling of worthlessness,withdrawel symptoms and outbursts of emotion including tears.Just because a Man crys doesn’t mean he’s having a nervous breakdown but thats where it will take you if you let it and getting over one of them is in itself testing.The human body is an amazingly resilient tool,the Brain is the computer but you overload it and its more than a new hard drive you’ll need.
thats why I do sympathise with those that just cant see a way out of this huge black hole.
You don’t understand my point Gord.
Of course we ALL "sypathise" immensely with anyone going through depression. It’s a terrible thing. However, telling someone with Depression ending their own life would be the "brave" thing to do – is likely to make them feel it is the right thing to do. It makes it more likely the person will take their own life.The "brave" thing is to live. To fight, fight, and fight again if they possibly can. But sadly sometimes bravery is not enough.
Value Is Everythingthats why I do sympathise with those that just cant see a way out of this huge black hole.
You don’t understand my point Gord.
Of course we ALL "sypathise" immensely with anyone going through depression. It’s a terrible thing. However, telling someone with Depression ending their own life would be the "brave" thing to do – is likely to make them feel it is the right thing to do. It makes it more likely the person will take their own life.The "brave" thing is to live. To fight, fight, and fight again if they possibly can. But sadly sometimes bravery is not enough.
I agree with your fight,fight,fight philosophy Ginge,I live by a work ethic and in a world of competitive business that moral code works.However we are talking something totally different here,we are talking about being incapacitated by ill health,not a physical issue but a Mental one and the fight,fight,fight approach only works until the individual has exhausted all avenues of fighting,whether it be self motivational courses that encourage those to mix socially,shopping trips out with carers all the things Crisis teams deem uplifting.Trouble is no sooner have they gone the individual is back at rock bottom again so no matter how they try to fight,its 2 steps forward and 3 back.I’m talking about serious cases here Ginge the sort that inevitably get suicidal thoughts.Like I have said there are many aspects of mental illness,some treatable,some manageable and some that will inevitably kill themselves.As humans we are all pretty similar,we think we are anyway.A Girlfriend is part of us developing mentally/emotionally/physically,we get ditched by our Girlfriends,that is part of growing up too,we deal with losing our Girlfriend even if its to our best friend,tough sh*t it is so why do some go and kill themselves over it? That is just one example of the power of our brain and the tricks it can play on us.I agree had the individual had the capacity to fight,fight,fight,he may look back in years to come and say "Phew I got a bit carried away there contemplating suicide over a girl" but its the kneejerk response that triggers panic,that in turn triggers rash decision.When someone decides to kill themself they have to decide a way to go…..In front of a Train,Hanging,Overdose,Gunshot,Jumper,there’s plenty of ways to leave this world but to be in that zone tells you how desperate they are,they aren’t thinking straight to us but to them its an escape from a dreadful existence and so they can deal with all the preparation required.A friend of mine developed Tinitis,an awful ringing in his ears,nothing could be done for it 20yrs ago,I’m not sure anything can now but he filled a rucksack full of bricks and walked into the River Derwent and drowned. Brave Man in my eyes!
When someone decides to kill themself they have to decide a way to go…..In front of a Train,Hanging,Overdose,Gunshot,Jumper,there’s plenty of ways to leave this world but to be in that zone tells you how desperate they are,they aren’t thinking straight
Exactly Gord, they’re "not thinking straight". Yet you’ve just told the man on the railtrack / noose around his neck / needle in his arm / gun to his head / on the roof… that the "brave" thing to do is to end it all! Do you get my point now?
Value Is EverythingIt’s not the "brave" thing to do. You’d never encourage a suicidal person by saying "well done! You’re being so brave!". To a suicidal person it’s the only option. They can’t see any other way out. It’s neither brave nor cowardly, it’s not a choice, it’s the only option they can see. The "brave" part is the physical act: jumping off a bridge, tying the noose around your neck etc. It must go against all our natural survival instincts to do that. It just shows how desperate people can be that they will take that step.
Firstly, my heartfelt sympathy goes out to Lucy’s family. A young, beautiful life lost to them forever.
I have followed this thread with some interest and taken on board everyone’s comments.
I wasn’t going to comment , simply because of the sensitive nature of such a sad subject – but primarily because it is close to home.
Don’t ever, EVER, say to me that suicide is the easy way out. No it bloody isn’t – far from it.
Someone very, very close to me tried ( God, how they tried )to end their young life four years ago. That very special person had reached a point where, to them, life was no longer worth living.
I felt every word of that Himself,powerful,emotional and life changing.I bet it was a tough call writing it but an uplifting one.
This thread for all the few brave enough to contribute has been read almost 10,000 times,that is a record on here for barely 5 days its been on, it just shows its reaching out and touching the odd nerve or at least making people think.When someone decides to kill themself they have to decide a way to go…..In front of a Train,Hanging,Overdose,Gunshot,Jumper,there’s plenty of ways to leave this world but to be in that zone tells you how desperate they are,they aren’t thinking straight
Exactly Gord, they’re "not thinking straight". Yet you’ve just told the man on the railtrack / noose around his neck / needle in his arm / gun to his head / on the roof… that the "brave" thing to do is to end it all! Do you get my point now?
Ginge,I haven’t told anyone they are being brave by killing themselves.My own personal feelings on this topic are that they are not the cowards portrayed by past prejudice views,I personally think that its a bloody tragedy that an individual ends up having to do what they do to escape the Hellhole they are experiencing.Simply put they are Brave rather than cowardly imo.
And we will get to 10,000 views tonight,testimony to Lucy Stack and evey other individual who couldn’t live with Cancer of the soul.
No other thread has been read by so many and yet contributed to by so few,just shows what a touchy subject this still is to open up to but intrigues so many.
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