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I see little atraction in pointing from a prizemoney point of view. I can see the atraction of you have one horse you use as a drag hunter, but if its any good whats the point in arsing around for a cpuple of hundred quid when you can chase the glory under rules.
My grandfathers pointer Brass Tacks was good enough to be head hunted my Captain Crump, however my grandfather couldnt afford or wouldn’t pay his training fees, so she never chased the glory which is a great shame as I gather she could run and quick at the end of a four mile race so the National was a possible. These days I suspect someone like paul nichols would have made an offer too good to refuse…
I see little atraction in pointing from a prizemoney point of view. I can see the atraction of you have one horse you use as a drag hunter, but if its any good whats the point in arsing around for a cpuple of hundred quid when you can chase the glory under rules.
I think the fact that the Pointing enthusiasts’ website is monikered Jumping For Fun answers that one as succinctly as necessary. If you’re entering Pointing in the hope of profiting wildly from it (by means other than betting), then you are emphatically following the wrong sport.
These days I suspect someone like paul nichols would have made an offer too good to refuse…
See above. There are enough people associated with Pointing who remain impervious to big-money offers for their performers, thank goodness. Better, it is thought, to serve it up in good Open fields and give the connections in question the pleasure that was all they ever wanted, rather than to let their charges be fed into the sausage machine of the bigger, less personal Rules yard.
Incidentally, Paul Nicholls isn’t in the habit of whanging his chequebook out for any British Pointer he likes the look of – he has the feeder operation of Richard Barber to prime his Pointing-to-Rules aspirants, and that meets needs perfectly adequately.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Frankly I object too seeing winning pointers against unraced horses in maidens under rules as they are not maidens,
They are no more or less maidens than winners off the Flat. There is little stopping any horse being run in another discipline prior to a maiden jumps race under Rules if their connections want to level that particular playing field.
point to point fences are barley taler than a fixed brush hurdles…
Depends where you’re looking. Haydock’s brushes this term appear bigger than Southwell’s or Worcester’s, but still fall short of the 4ft 3ins minimum for a Pointing fence.
…and the emphasis there is on "minimum". Go to a Pointing venue like Horseheath and you’ll see very substantial Pointing fences (and better built than many Rules equivalents), whilst the tallest of the lot – albeit some are almost bullfinch in composition – are the 5ft jobbies at Llanfrynach.
I disklike seeing licenced trainers running horses in the "fox hunters ( this race needs renaming too the drag hunters, or amatures gold salver" its meant too be for the amatures so why are professional rules trainers should not be allowed too have runners as it defeats the object of the exercise. IE to give the grass roots pointing crowd their ticket too the big festivals.
The mere fact that the likes of Cappa Bleu can still prevail in the Foxhunters indicates that the balance of power hasn’t been wrested entirely from the non-Rules trainers. It behoves the genuine amateur ranks to keep racing their Pointers in hunter chasers whenever BHA-origin balloting out doesn’t prevent it, and to keep sticking it to the "big men".
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Either way if I was in my grandfather positon and had to take on a battalion of Pipe Nichols et al in a supposed amatures race on horses who had turned up at the hunt got his certifcate signed then buggered off home (which has happened both here and in Ireland). I would be really cheesed off. Fox Hunting is illegal, like it or like it not, its like greyhound racing having the pitbull cup so can they please rename it.
The one time i went pointing, the fences looked smaller than those of a park course.
In relation to checkbook buying I was using Nichols or other larger yards such as the Pipes or JP McManus.
Robber barons would be a polite term used describe some of the chariters of the point to point types I have known and thats being polite.
Yesterday’s Harkaway meeting took place – nice crisp sunny day. It was a big effort by the organisers to ensure it went ahead.
Off the list which started this thread 2 of them ran – Burntoakboy and Roulez Cool and they both WON!
Cottenham survived a last minute frost scare – racing was put back and hour and, luckily, they didn’t need to split the maiden.
Performance of the day was Cedrus Libani’s win in the Men’s Open under Richard Burton for the Ruckers (Cappa Bleu..). He made all, at 4/5, beating Forget the Ref by 4 lengths in impressive fashion. However he’ll be kept to pointing as the Ruckers have High Chimes for Hunter Chasing.
The most exciting race of the day was Start Royal’s short head win (under James Tudor) from Where’s My Baby (David Kemp’s first ride since breaking cheekbones in march) in the Club Race. Start Royal (described by trainer Alan Hill as "a ******* at home") was 7 lengths clear jumping the last but the second drew upsides and only when James Tudor gave him a slap did he run on. He is now unbeaten in points (3-3).
the Ruckers have High Chimes for Hunter Chasing.
…who would have debuted at Lydstep tomorrow (taking on the terminally wonderful Chesnut Annie) had that meeting not fallen foul of the weather.
Another I was looking forward to hearing about (was already engaged elsewhere tomorrow) at Lydstep would have been Rimini, second in a bumper on his only start for Francois Doumen 15 months ago and a half-brother of recent Sandown hurdle scorer Spunk.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Off the list which started this thread 2 of them ran – Burntoakboy and Roulez Cool and they both WON!
Class will out, which is always a relief! I’d very much like to see Roulez Cool aimed at the Cheltenham Foxhunters, and given his connections, there’s every chance he will be. How many horses with quite his progressive profile (seven years old, OR 148 and still rising when last seen under Rules last spring) are likely to line up?
My only concern is that he still has to prove himself a bit jumping up and down undulating courses, so I’d be delighted if he went the Cappa Bleu route and headed to Horseheath next.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Looks like pointing will beat the elements for the first time since December 28th this weekend, with four meetings still surviving at present. Names which are the most likely to be familiar to you entered up at each meeting include;
LARKHILL (Wiltshire), Saturday
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Turthen (Cheltenham Foxhunters second)
Drybrook Bedouin (Cheltenham Intermediate Final winner)
Roulez Coul (hopefully securing Foxhunters qualification!)
Saintsaire
ThisthatandtotherWADEBRIDGE (Cornwall), Saturday
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Holly WalkCHIPLEY PARK (Devon), Sunday
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Le DucHIGHAM (Suffolk), Sunday
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Ungaro
Cedrus Libani
Coat Of Honour
Nadover
The King Of Angels
The Railway Man
Full HouseI’ll be at Chipley to see if Le Duc can be kept interested enough by this change of discipline. Like Thisthatandtother, he’s now running for Richard Barber and ridden by his son Jack.
Apropos of Mr Barber, I think it was Stilvi who was asking as to his numerical strength in points about nine months ago, and a list was produced. I can confirm he’s already got 32 horses qualified for pointing this term, of which the younger horses (4-6yo, all bar a couple maidens) comprise;
Bold Chief, Buck’s Bond, Cappoquin, Earth Beat, Flanshan, Fredwal, Garton King, Irish Vixen, Mr Hudson, Oscargo, Outnumbered, Pezreuil, Remember Bampi, Round About, Round Tom, Silver Goal, Sonofvic, That’ll Do, Why Not Silver, Wonnabegood.
Of these, the 5yo That’ll Do and 6yo Cappoquin are two more Paul Barber / Harry Findlay-owned critters. Tellingly, perhaps, they’ve both been entered in the same Open Maiden at the Larkhill meeting that has seen wins for Alfie Sherrin and Aiteen Thirtythree in the last two years. Why Not Silver is also entered in that 3m contest, whilst Earth BEat could contest a 2m4f Maiden.
Hope that information is of some use. I wonder how many of those Barber inmates we’ll be talking about in more excited terms under Rules one year hence!
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I am a possible for Chipley,weather is as always a worry.
Looks like Taunton is the nearest station.
Ooh, look forward to seeing you there if you make it, GD! You know what to look out for – broadly speaking, "Harry Potter – the wilderness years". In allover black.
I know of at least one other TRFfer who’ll be there, so it doesn’t look like I’m going to be at a loss for splendid company.
Two omissions from the Larkhill list above are the Sarah Hobbs pair of Zabenz and, possibly more intriguingly, former Prix Jean Prat** and Emirates Trophy** winner Gold Medallist, for whom a run this weekend would constitute a pointing debut. At least they’ve got the choice of course right for him – he always seemed better to me going right-handed, and recorded all eight career wins under Rules going that way round. Larkhill is also clockwise in orientation.
gc
**Edit – incorrect. See below!
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Don’t think I’ll make the meeting at Higham (likely to be a marathon will plenty of divisions) sadly.
Good spot on Gold Medallist although RP has him down as winning the Bahrain Trophy and Prix Kergorlay.
Still chortling at the Harry Potter reference
Good spot on Gold Medallist although RP has him down as winning the Bahrain Trophy and Prix Kergorlay.
That’s because the Post is correct! Managed to misremember both race names in the few-second period from looking at the RP site to typing that post, which paints a somewhat worrying picture of my present mental wellbeing.
It’s me age, y’see…
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Roulez Coul (hopefully securing Foxhunters qualification!)
…and indeed he did – winning the Mens Open.
Of these, the 5yo That’ll Do and 6yo Cappoquin are two more Paul Barber / Harry Findlay-owned critters. Tellingly, perhaps, they’ve both been entered in the same Open Maiden at the Larkhill meeting that has seen wins for Alfie Sherrin and Aiteen Thirtythree in the last two years.
Record maintained for Barber and Findlay – both Cappoquin and That’ll Do won a division of the 3m Maiden under Nick Williams and Ryan Mahon respectively.
Don’t have any more details as to the impressiveness (or otherwise) of any of the above performances, but I’ll be very interested to find out how higly connections, or more importantly any racegoers there today, regarded them.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Any of the pointing experts know how easy it would be to get to Horseheath from Sussex on Saturday via public transport?
Bit of a long shot given all these P2P tracks seem to be in the middle of nowhere
Half the fun is trying to get to the tracks if you rely on public transport.
I managed it on Sunday by getting a bus to a nearby village on the outskirts of Wellington and then walking to the course.
Prior to the internet and sites like weatherbys providing information on where the courses are there is no way it could have been done without many phone calls to bus/train service providers and so on…..Very good day on Sunday,although at 7am I feared the worst as it was bitterly cold in nearby Taunton.
Nice to see the man in black again,although not quite attired in the usual way.
Mind you he had far more sense,wearing trainers wasn’t my brightest idea.
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