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Look Here – Not Sanders Finest Moment

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  • #11627
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4515

    Too wide, too far back and when she responds to a few cracks with the whip and looks like winning inexplicably decides to ride out hands and heels and loses by two short heads. The filly should have won.

    #232225
    Kautostar1
    Member
    • Total Posts 384

    Heard somehwere that if i horse overtakes the leader only for the leader to overtake him then it’s a bad run timed too early… shame as lovely horse

    #232235
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I take it you backed Look Here, stilvi?

    To my eye she took an ever-so-slender lead at one stage and probably lost out due to a lack of fitness (despite looking incredibly well beforehand) rather than an average ride from Sanders.

    She’s run an absolute screamer and there were certainly far worse rides evident this afternoon – Nasri and Mastoora in the 4.50 to name but two.

    I’m all for flagging bad rides, but you’re way off the mark here.

    #232252
    Grimes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1889

    I think she nosed ahead by inches about a yard before the line. It did seem a shame she hadn’t started her run earlier.

    Still, sometimes, I see a fault on the jockey’s part, and seen from another view, the criticism looks to have been unjustfied. Not always though, of course. There are so many imponderables about the start and jockeying for position, before the race even starts in earnest. I expect they must have a keen awareness of their mount’s competitors and what’s going on, and then make split-second decisions.

    Look Here should have more improvement than the other two, as well, I think.

    #232255
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    I take it you backed Look Here, stilvi?

    To my eye she took an ever-so-slender lead at one stage and probably lost out due to a lack of fitness (despite looking incredibly well beforehand) rather than an average ride from Sanders.

    She’s run an absolute screamer and there were certainly far worse rides evident this afternoon – Nasri and Mastoora in the 4.50 to name but two.

    I’m all for flagging bad rides, but you’re way off the mark here.

    I’m not always in agreement with Equitrack, but he’s absolutely on the money here*.

    * apart from the last bit ~ neither handled the track at all well, although Spencer is partly culpable as he gets way too many horses unbalanced for it to be a fluke (four of his rides today were wayward on the track and he really must do better in that department)

    #232265
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4515

    I take it you backed Look Here, stilvi?

    To my eye she took an ever-so-slender lead at one stage and probably lost out due to a lack of fitness (despite looking incredibly well beforehand) rather than an average ride from Sanders.

    Yes, I backed it each-way and broke even. As I said on another thread it is obvious that you are going to analyse a race that much more closely if you have a bet on it. Even if I hadn’t had a bet I would still be of the opinion the filly should have won.

    It seems you are implying that rather than lose by two short heads because of an ill-judged ride she has lost because of lack of fitness. Your thoughts on her fitness or otherwise are pure guesswork. Hardly grounds for suggesting anyone elses opinion is ‘way off the mark’.

    Look Here came to win her race and in my opinion Sanders mistakenly put his stick down thinking the race was won.

    #232266
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    Absolutely agree with Rory regarding Nasri – did not seem to like the course at all – only put in some semblance of a decent run once in the straight.

    #232277
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    If I watched the preliminaries and the race with my eyes closed, stilvi, judgement on the horse’s fitness would indeed be guesswork. However, I am blessed with the gift of sight and don’t believe that Seb Sanders cost Look Here the race.

    I think I’m one of the more critical members of the forum when it comes to jockeys, and having had £20 riding on Look Here in a 123/1 treble I could be forgiven for blowing my top, but the fact that I’m perfectly happy (though that could be because rory has finally agreed with me, to some degree at least) speaks for itself!

    #232725
    Silvoir
    Participant
    • Total Posts 270

    I know this had dropped down the list so apologies for bringing this back up but was just watching the Coronation Cup again in order to answer a complaint we’ve had and , as I’d seen this thread on Friday evening, I have watched several reruns of the finish using the head on camera.

    Without going into too much detail, Seb applies the whip a couple of times using his right hand inside the final 2 furlongs (I think, furlong markers not in shot to the rail being dolled out) and Look Here hangs down the camber as a result. He swtiches his whip to his left hand and after applying the whip again she then hangs away from the whip back up the camber.

    He swtiches his whip again and applies it nine times inside the final furlong or so and she hangs back down the camber. Approaching the end of the race his last use the whip causes her to hang quite sharply left, causing minor interference to Duncan. Given the above, and at what stage in the race it occured (ie a few strides before the finish), if he’d have applied the whip again I’m fairly certain Look Here would have drifted further down the camber. Had this happened then yes, she might have got up on the line, but would have almost certainly cause interference to Youmzain, who in turn may have interfered with Ask, and given the closeness of the finish could/would have lost the race in the Stewards room.

    Lots of ifs and maybes I know but it’s quite a compelling case from the head on as to why he put his whip down IMHO.

    #232782
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4515

    I know this had dropped down the list so apologies for bringing this back up but was just watching the Coronation Cup again in order to answer a complaint we’ve had and , as I’d seen this thread on Friday evening, I have watched several reruns of the finish using the head on camera.

    Without going into too much detail, Seb applies the whip a couple of times using his right hand inside the final 2 furlongs (I think, furlong markers not in shot to the rail being dolled out) and Look Here hangs down the camber as a result. He swtiches his whip to his left hand and after applying the whip again she then hangs away from the whip back up the camber.

    He swtiches his whip again and applies it nine times inside the final furlong or so and she hangs back down the camber. Approaching the end of the race his last use the whip causes her to hang quite sharply left, causing minor interference to Duncan. Given the above, and at what stage in the race it occured (ie a few strides before the finish), if he’d have applied the whip again I’m fairly certain Look Here would have drifted further down the camber. Had this happened then yes, she might have got up on the line, but would have almost certainly cause interference to Youmzain, who in turn may have interfered with Ask, and given the closeness of the finish could/would have lost the race in the Stewards room.

    Lots of ifs and maybes I know but it’s quite a compelling case from the head on as to why he put his whip down IMHO.

    That would be a very convincing argument if you didn’t think a jockey’s mentality (particularly in a Group 1) was to win the race first and think about interference afterwards. Personally, I think the chances of her winning with one more smack were quite a lot higher than causing any significant interference before the line. Having said all that as you know in an ideal world I would have preferred the race to have ended with all three jockeys riding out hands and heels.

    #236630
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I’m afraid I can’t offer any sort of defence for Sanders this afternoon – were it anything but a Group 1 I’d have seriously questioned whether he wanted to win the race.

    Appalling effort (or lack thereof).

    #236648
    Librettist
    Member
    • Total Posts 559

    I’m afraid I can’t offer any sort of defence for Sanders this afternoon – were it anything but a Group 1 I’d have seriously questioned whether he wanted to win the race.

    Appalling effort (or lack thereof).

    I take it you backed the horse then, Equitrack :wink:

    #236657
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    I backed Lush Lashes and fully accept that I wouldn’t have won no matter what ride she was given.

    But the ride on Look Here was dire and that’s all there is to say on the matter. He’s done exactly the same thing as in the Oaks Trial and the Coronation Cup. Inept.

    #236661
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    I’m afraid I can’t offer any sort of defence for Sanders this afternoon – were it anything but a Group 1 I’d have seriously questioned whether he wanted to win the race.

    Appalling effort (or lack thereof).

    Can’t really have that. She just looked a bit one paced to me and never really looked like winning. Perhaps with a really strong pace, she might have gone close, but she lacked the tactical speed to get involved today.

    #236673
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I most certainly did, Librettist, but I’m objective enough not to let that effect my judgement – I backed her at Epsom too, but I think you’ll find I defended Sanders on that occasion.

    She ‘never really looked like winning’, TDK, because she was sat too far off a ridiculously sedate pace and only asked to quicken as they straightened up. As I have said elsewhere on the forum I’d have had absolutely no quarrel with Sanders’s (supposed) effort had the gallop been strong, but to ride the race as he did, given how events worked out at Epsom, beggars belief.

    #236690
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I’m afraid I can’t offer any sort of defence for Sanders this afternoon – were it anything but a Group 1 I’d have seriously questioned whether he wanted to win the race.

    Appalling effort (or lack thereof).

    Can’t really have that. She just looked a bit one paced to me and never really looked like winning. Perhaps with a really strong pace, she might have gone close, but she lacked the tactical speed to get involved today.

    I don’t fully agree with of you on this. and this too far off the pace is an absolute nonsense. She was no more than 4 lengths behind the leader and seemed to be travelling very well. If you watch the race gain when he says they had half a mile to go she goes out of shot for a few seconds. Prior to turning into the straight the pace quicked slightly and immediately she was in trouble and Seb was quick to get after her. She simply couldn’t pick up on the ground and lost a couple of lengths gathering herself together. IMO she has got plenty speed for that class of race but wants better ground. He’s done his job well IMO and there’s a lot of typical "I was robbed" emotions blinding peoples judgement here.

    #236694
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    I was a little surprised TDK was so keen on her this morning as I couldn’t figure out the race and felt she needed the mile and a half. Events proved this- unless there’s a very strong pace she’ll struggle at 10f, IMO. I didn’t think she looked unlucky today and wouldn’t back her to reverse the placings. Good call on Tamagin though TDK!

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