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Fist, I found your summary of selected Scottish trainers from the last 30 years or so (!) very interesting. This shared my own thoughts on a couple from the 70s & 80s, and got me pondering.
What do you think of the current group, the’re mostly NH trainers, with a few dual purpose? I’d be interested on your (or anyone else’s) opinion on :
Len Lungo, Lucinda Russell, the Normiles, Ewart, Goldie, both Whillans, Willie Amos (you’ve already covered Peter Monteith & Semple), etc.Well it was a toss up between Johnny Pinkoski and Lenny’s dad who made the best Fish and Chips in Lanarkshire. Lenny as a trainer is on a par with his dad. Not exactly the stewards best friend but an ace when it comes to landing a touch. His Scottish record speaks for itself having trained more winners in a season than Rhona Oliver did at her peak despite his horses not being in the same class as hers.
Astral Charmer who ran away with young John Goulding and stole the Scottiah Grand National.
Ooooh yes, one of my very earliest TV racing memories, that, and certainly one that has stayed with me ever since. Exhibit A;
http://thatracingblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/all-thats-missing-is-stuart-maconie-if.html
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Whilst risking dignifying your facetious comment, dare I ask where you would draw the line in allowing ‘ordinary’ trainers to take part in the sport, and where woudl you deem that ‘above ordinary’ would commence?
Aside from the fact that you should, at the very least, check your submissions for spellling, I fail to see how my comment was facetious. We have a racing programme that is underpinned by dross, rubbish racing, rubbish horses, rubbish trainers – too many poor horses in training and greedy people prepared to train them. I’ve nothing against ‘ordinary’ trainers – providing that their raison d’etre isn’t merely to exploit that situation.
Grayson – I find your ‘jumpers for goalposts’ attitude equally tiresome.
Fist, I found your summary of selected Scottish trainers from the last 30 years or so (!) very interesting. This shared my own thoughts on a couple from the 70s & 80s, and got me pondering.
What do you think of the current group, the’re mostly NH trainers, with a few dual purpose? I’d be interested on your (or anyone else’s) opinion on :
Len Lungo, Lucinda Russell, the Normiles, Ewart, Goldie, both Whillans, Willie Amos (you’ve already covered Peter Monteith & Semple), etc.James Ewart is making a good fist of it from his Langholm base (yes my home town) and the Whillans brothers do well with what they have from their Hawick stables and like James as as straight as they come.
Like a lot of trainers they just need the right material. If they were based further sout they would probably get better horses as that is what they deserve.
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There was another horse who’s name I simply can’t remember at the moment for some reason. I went to a meeting at your favourite track `Cartmel
with Donal and Margaret Bell specifically to back the horse and I am sure it won. Hopefully someone will have records and can come up with the name as it was the same day that Gay Future won.Tychee was the horse in question.
It was indeed Rory spot on. 1st or 2nd race by any chance? How on earth do you find these things out? I can’t find a site that has all these old race results.
One in particular I was interested in looking back on was at Sedgefield.
Abandoned Warrior trained by Charlotte Postewaite ridden by PA Charlton.
The horse was the subject of a very clever gamble I was lucky to be part off. Backed off the course and on the course from around 16/1 to about 7/2 if memory serves me well he won in a common canter and and x,xxx,xxx was won by the lucky owner. That may be hard for some members to believe but anyone who doubts me are welome to PM me and I’ll tell you how it was done.
J Ewart will be top Scottish trainer before long.
Len Lungo – not the force he once was. He has more than proved himself in the racing game so why are owners not sending him really good horses these days?
Lucinda Russell goes from strength to strength.
Goldie, is he cutting back from flat to jumps?.
Given a few good horses Andrew Parker could do well. He has a modern training establishment right next the the motorway system
When did Mr Nolan last train a winner?
Grayson – I find your ‘jumpers for goalposts’ attitude equally tiresome.
A hammer-blow for sure, but I’m sure I’ll learn to recover from that revelation.
It might require time.
It might require extensive sessions with the finest counsellors North Herts County Council can provide me.
It might even require consuming ever greater amounts of that funny powdery stuff in a brown paper bag I can buy from "Stig" in the backroom of the Cucumber & Hearing Aid every other week (in the hope, of course, that he’s not going to try to dupe me with some ground-up worming tablets again, like last time).
But I’m sure I’ll pull through. It’s important.
I digress. It’s hardly "jumpers for goalposts" to provide some sort of context as to how much racing of a lower level there has always been, or to assert that what there is now is an amount that has most likely just increased in proportion as the racing programme itself has increased.
It’s far less a failing of the sport that such horses or races exist, and far more one that they, and indeed those of any level of ability, are not always remunerated more amply.
In the same way that one doesn’t give up on a sound model such as the democratic process simply because it can occasionally lead to some nutjob element stealing a few votes here and there, so one doesn’t give up either on the model of the racing programme simply because it is not as cash-rich as all served by it might like it to be – one looks instead to find ways to rectify that situation.
A reluctance to date to answer Rob’s direct question on where to draw the line in allowing ordinary competitors to remain in the sport is noted. No matter – I think previous threads elsewhere have already challenged the notion that, for example, banning all Flat horses rated under 40 from Rules racing as a matter of course is in the bests interests of either the sport itself or equine welfare overall.
The total of 90+ rated animals isn’t suddenly going to start increasing for any such ban (that’s real *******-for-virginity thinking, that), whilst at the same time the number of affected horses that can be safely absorbed into other disciplines such as Arab racing, flapping, point-to-pointing, etc. is strictly finite. Other than risking increasing the likelihood of neglect cases, and / or delivering a shot in the arm to the rendering and pet food industries, very careful thought needs to be given to what applying even the lightest of quality controls (ratings-driven or otherwise) to racing’s participants will actually achieve.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
The Scottish scene for trainers is blessed with some good eggs at the minute. I can’t see what Donal Nolan is doing wrong, in a salary yard filled with ‘pets’ which has an owner who pays the same entry fees as anybody else. They aren’t exploiting any system which isn’t restricted to purely D.A Nolan. Apperence money under rule J11 ensures much of the Nolan string, misses any cut anyhow. Equine billpayers are far better off with Bradburne’s, Ewart, Forster, Graham’s than some of these licensed trainers in more established fashionable regions.
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Definitely Sedgefield, Fist, and not Catterick?
Might have been Rory I wasn’t at the track so I could be gettingmixed up.
He was entered in a race on the Monday or Tuesday and they withdrew him because of a horse called Sir Wimpy trained by M Dickinson was said to be a bit special. It was his first run I think.
I thought he must be something special if the were scared of him so I backed him with William Hill and tried to get 2k on at 5/2 but they would only give me SP oddly he he drifted to 5/1 but won by 30 lengths.
Perhaps that was the Sedgefield connection but AW race was def within days of that if that helps.
Definitely Sedgefield, Fist, and not Catterick?
Might have been Rory I wasn’t at the track so I could be gettingmixed up.
He was entered in a race on the Monday or Tuesday and they withdrew him because of a horse called Sir Wimpy trained by M Dickinson was said to be a bit special. It was his first run I think.
I thought he must be something special if the were scared of him so I backed him with William Hill and tried to get 2k on at 5/2 but they would only give me SP oddly he he drifted to 5/1 but won by 30 lengths.
Perhaps that was the Sedgefield connection but AW race was def within days of that if that helps.
You’re hard work Fist!
I don’t know I find these things out for you, but I’m certain that the horse you are talking about isn’t Abandoned Warrior at all, but another Postlethwaite inmate called Tarqa. Ring any bells?
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I remember Tarqa well Rory and he also landed a touch for Ronnie but I am 100% certain Abandoned Warrior. He won 4 races over a two year period.
No worries if you can’t find him I have tired a hundred times but the internet results stop about a couple of years prior to that.
I’ll Pm you and fill you in on what took place but I doubt if it will help.
I’m 100% certain it was Tarqa, Fist. He won Sedgefield’s Grove Novices’ Hurdle on March 7th 1983, the day before Sir Wimpy won the Watergall Novices’ Hurdle at Warwick. All the other details check out. Tarqa was backed from an official 12/1 on course down to 3/1 before being returned at 7/2. Tony Charlton rode. The following day Sir Wimpy, making his debut for Michael Dickinson and ridden by Graham Bradley won unchallenged by thirty lengths after drifting from 11/4 to 11/2 (rather stingily returned at 4/1 SP). Abandoned Warrior did indeed win four times for Charlotte Postlethwaite and may have landed a touch on the last of those in 1986 (I have no decent records for that year) but Sir Wimpy was dead before AW ever set foot on a racecourse.
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I believe MD’s father in law was a course bookie. Weird how the horse drifted so badly and won so easily
The old memory obviously isn’t what it used to be.
Really is time I retired 
Anyone in Scotland thinking of becoming an owner of a racehorse should not need to look any further than Scottsih stables these days.
That is unless one is thinking of going for a "Classic".
Still feel that Linda Perrat may have had a raw deal.
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One drawback Tom is the travelling if your horse ends up being too good for the Scottish tracks.
It’s a very long way from Kinrosshire to Berkshire, not much fun for the horse and very costly.
On the plus side is you can go and visit the yard a lot easier.
I would have absolutely no hesitation putting a horse with Peter Monteith if he was down south but I’m afraid, being honest, if I was spending a fair bit of money I would be looking at puting my horse with Nicky Henderson or Jonjo. That’s purely on location mind you as if Peter had thier horses I’m sure he would do a fantastic job.
As far as our lady is concerned she obviouslly knows her game but I wouldn’t personally put a horse with her. Nothing against her just not my cup of tea.
I’m all for supporting Scottish racing but I think we have to be realistic and face the fact that most Scottish owners with big bucks have their horses trained down south.
The likes of Peter gets plenty owners because he’s a very nice guy who has a lot of time for people. Through social contacts he finds owners at all levels but I doubt if JP and SRO are going to call him up and send him a dozen new horses anytime in the forseaable future.
I did say I was not speaking of having a classic animal trained in Scotland but the animals that most Scottish owners will have it would do no harm to have them trained north of the border. Easier for the owners to see them on the gallops and the odd trip south if they were good enough would not surely inconvenience most animals. And maybe owners, trainers, northern racetracks should do more to get a better quality of racing in the north. we should not be resigned to letting the south get all its own way.
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