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Of course not but for some reason The Guardian has run a few articles recently which trumpet the benefits of the ‘two thirds’ measure which is legal to sell but not required unlike halves and pints. All available here:
https://www.theguardian.com/food/beer
What say the beer drinkers of TRF? Utter woke nonsense or a good idea?
I have to say it would appeal as an option provided existing measures remained available and the price was in proportion. A half does disappear too quickly for me but for some of the stronger brews, or simply to try more different beers without getting quite so bladdered, the choice of a slightly smaller measure would be a good thing in my book. I have been to a few places that offer it and I am a fan. We already have three standard wine sizes so why not beer too?
I don’t think it should become the standard though, just another option. For a start they’d use it to stealthily drive up prices and before you know it you’re paying the same price as you do for a pint now.
It is actually still legal to sell a third of a pint of beer (a “nip”). I know at least two pubs in Liverpool that do.
The two thirds measure (I believe it is a “schooner”) does not make a lot of appeal to me, other than for quite strong beers.
I would prefer to see the pint measure enforced, with lined glasses. There is zero chance of it happening but it should be. Beer drinkers are ripped off every day by short measures.
I normally drink pints and will order a half of anything strong.
Don’t see the need for schooners, personally.
Funnily enough I did nearly make a facetious comment about pubs already serving 2/3rds with short measures.
The point is often made that in many parts of Europe beer is served in 500ml glasses but more often than not these have a line below the brim so you’re probably actually getting about the same as when you order a ‘pint’ here.
I have very occasionally seen the third measure but usually reserved for the rocket fuel double figure percentage stuff.
‘Schooner’ apparently has no legal definition but if it ever was to take off, I think it would be a good name to give it. ‘Two thirds’ just sounds awkward.
In Cologne the local ‘Kölsch’ beer is served in 200ml measures (plus the foam on top of that) for a couple of Euros or so. The waiters are constantly walking around with trays of them and they mark your coaster each time they give you one.
In our regular holiday haunts i.e. The Algarve and Fuerteventura, a “large beer” these days is often in a 400ml glass.
Some bars still sell beer in 500ml glasses though.
And guess what? The prices for a “large beer” are about the same. Luckily, in some bars you can still get a large beer for €3, although that is v rare in the town we visit in Portugal, but easily achievable in Fuerteventura.
If 400ml “large beer” became the norm in the UK what’s the odds the pubs charge the same as if it was a pint?
Isn’t that the essence of free-market economics? 🤔
You charge what people are prepared to pay. And few people are going to stop going to the pub if they’re charged the same for 400ml as they were for 568ml. Of course, we will grumble about it for a few weeks but, come Friday night, it’ll be straight down the pub as usual for the vast majority of people.
In this country, rightly or wrongly, drinking is a cultural phenomenon.
I’d bet good money you’re right Glad.
As I said, the pint measure is clearly going nowhere and few are seriously suggesting replacing it but if you did I agree it wouldn’t take that long before at the very least profit margins were ramped up by charging more pro rata.
The two thirds should be an additional option only IMO rather than an outright replacement. Consumers are then free to ignore them altogether or lap them up as they see fit.
To expand the discussion a bit: plenty of pubs are closing and the outlook is not good.
It looks obvious that alcohol taxes will be increased in the budget, which will not help pubs. Nor will the suggested ban on smoking in pub gardens.
A pint in a pub is becoming an unaffordable luxury for many people. I am fortunate to have some disposable income but even I am starting to wonder if spending upwards of £5 on a pint is a good use of money. I know some pubs which still charge around £4 but they are clearly going to have to raise their prices soon.
Worse still, I heard a suggestion was made at the Labour conference that pubs should be made to close earlier to “reduce alcohol related harm”.
The idea that would work is laughable. All it would do is make people drink a bit quicker as closing time approached and force lots of people out onto the street at the same time. It would also almost certainly cause an increase in drinking at home, which is more harmful than drinking in the pub where conversation means people tend to drink less.
Save us from these New Puritans, please.
I’ve always wondered why a “pint” needs to be filled right to the brim to fall out of the glass as soon as it is moved. Surely be best to have the glass a bit bigger with a mark on the glass to measure the pint?
And / or the pint glass could be used with a mark on it for a “two thirds” measure?
Value Is EverythingI am not someone who regularly visits pubs, CAS.
But can’t tax be different on drink depending on where it is served?
Drink consumed in pubs should be taxed at a lower rate.
Good for the landlord and good for the drinker.Alternatively, owners of the pub given a rebate each year on their tax. Therefore in all but name… Drink being effectively taxed at a lower rate.
Value Is Everything‘plenty of pubs are closing and the outlook is not good’
‘Beer drinkers are ripped off every day by short measures’
I wonder if the two are in any way related. Not even restricted to beer according to Trading Standards:
The sub-£5 pint is becoming a rarer beast here in the westcountry. Still some about, especially the local ales (often the best proposition anyway) but pints north of £6 are creeping in in the more expensive pubs. Obviously Wetherspoons is the exception but that’s hardly news.
I don’t think the shortening of hours has any legs at all. Even the Mail admitted in its article that the Government says that it is ‘categorically untrue’ that it is being considered.
“Drink consumed in pubs should be taxed at a lower rate.”
It should be. Plenty of people in the licenced trade have been campaigning about it for years but it has never got anywhere. The Treasury just sees pubs as places to be taxed.
“Surely be best to have the glass a bit bigger with a mark on the glass to measure the pint?”
The occasional pub does serve beer in lined glasses.”The Plough” near Doncaster station is the last one I found (beer drinkers considering heading to Doncaster races take note).
Unfortunately it suits the trade to serve short measures so they can squeeze one or two more pints out of each barrel.
I would prefer a lined glasses but they are not popular with some drinkers. They are larger and not everyone finds them easy to hold.
“Even the Mail admitted in its article that the Government says that it is ‘categorically untrue’ that it is being considered.”
First rule of politics: never believe something until it has been officially denied.
‘I would prefer a lined glasses but they are not popular with some drinkers. They are larger and not everyone finds them easy to hold.’
The handled pint glass does live on in places. I was served a pint of ale in one just last week. Surely easier to hold, although they are are heavy, and for various reasons most places won’t touch them these days but it is a pleasant surprise to be handed one.
There are quite a few pubs in Liverpool that still sell beer in handled glasses. My local even asks you what sort of glass you want.
I am not particularly fussy but I have heard bar staff do not like handled glasses because they are more difficult to collect and wash.
From Orwell’s 1984 :
“…The old man whom he had followed into the pub was standing at the bar, having some kind of altercation with the barman, a large, stout, hook-nosed young man with enormous forearms. A knot of others, standing round with glasses in their hands, were watching the scene.
“I arst you civil enough, didn’t I?” said the old man, straightening his shoulders pugnaciously. “You telling me you ain’t got a pint mug in the ‘ole bleeding boozer?”
“And what in hell’s name is a pint?” said the barman, leaning forward with the tips of his fingers on the counter.
“‘Ark at ‘im! Calls ‘isself a barman and don’t know what a pint is! Why, a pint’s the ‘alf of a quart, and there’s four quarts to the gallon. ‘Ave to teach you the A, B, C next.”
“Never heard of ’em,’ said the barman shortly. ‘Litre and half litres – that’s all we serve. There’s the glasses on the shelf in front of you.”
“I likes a pint,” persisted the old man. “You could ‘a drawed me off a pint easy enough. We didn’t ‘ave these bleeding litres when I was a young man.”
“When you were a young man we were all living in the tree-tops,” said the barman, with a glance at the other customers.
There was a shout of laughter, and the uneasiness caused by Winston’s entry seemed to disappear. The old man’s white-stubbed face had flushed pink. He turned away, muttering to himself, and bumped into Winston. Winston caught him gently by the arm.
“May I offer you a drink?” he said.
“You’re a gent,” said the other, straightening his shoulders again. He appeared not to have noticed Winston’s blue overalls. “Pint!” he added aggressively to the barman. “Pint of wallop.'”
The barman swished two half-litres of dark-brown beer into thick glasses which he had rinsed in a bucket under the counter.”
Back in the 1970s when I first succumbed to the loopy juice many pubs in the North Midlands – notably those owned by Shipstones, Home Ales and Hardys & Hansons of blessed memory – and quite possibly elsewhere served their draught (real) ales via electric pumps rather than the now-ubiquitous hand pumps. These required no skill from the bar staff as they delivered exactly half a pint per click of the switch, so two clicks for a pint
If memory serves Shipstones and Home Ales pubs displayed a horizontal glass cylinder containing half a pint of beer on the bar top and a diaphragm would move across it pushing the beer into the glass: one way and back again for a pint. Most efficient and rather attractive
As for this idea to close pubs early in order to reduce consumption I reckon it’s a wind-up, particularly as one of the main reasons given for liberalizing pub opening hours, firstly to 11am-11pm in 1988 so doing away with the mandatory closure between 3pm and 5.30pm, and then to 24 hours in 2005 was to prevent the ‘last orders’ binge
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