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In Simon Nott’s betting report for Cheltenham Day 4 (link below) there’s a photo of someone holding a substantial wedge of cash. It’s within the description of the penultimate event.
Star*Sports seem to lay large, and some very large, cash wagers especially at the festivals. Other bookmakers will do likewise. I’m wondering how this is managed at the joint.
There are perhaps three types of heavy cash betting. The first would be with punters known to the bookmaker, in which case trust will presumably reign concerning the correct amount handed over for the bet.
Speculating on the second, the aforementioned photo shows a chunk of money enclosed in a small polythene envelope. I’m thinking the punter has withdrawn this from a bank, and that it is stamped by the teller as contents guaranteed unless the seal is broken. Again, trust will probably prevail. I’m prepared to be wrong about that.
A third possibility is the total stranger who pitches up with £10,000 in used readies of various denominations contained in a plastic bag sourced from Tesco Express. I’m curious to know whether this would be counted by hand or machine. I’d also like to know how long it takes to count such a sum whichever method is used.
Many thanks.
The bets are all counted, if the punter is known to the bookmaker they’ll probably be laid then the money counted, it’s invariably right, the bigger punters are usually known to the bookie. If the punter isn’t the money will be checked in front of them. If that’s not possible then it’s ‘spun’ when there’s time, always before the race. If for example a punter has handed over a wad of notes saying it’s £5000 and it transpires to be £4900 the BRM ( Betting Ring Manager ) will be called to verify what’s been tendered and they are on to that amount. The reality is that the bigger punters number in the handful so are known to the bookmaker and aren’t the sort of people to pull a stroke for £100, it’s the ones that have ‘£200’ and it’s only £180 you have to watch, those bets are always ‘spun’ in their presence. Dodgy people that try to underpay will be watching bookmakers at work, they’ll chose the lax bookies to have their bet with. I’d hasten to add that those types of people are few.
Thanks Simon, I’ve often wondered about that.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysCheers for that Simon very interesting, loved your blog this week btw, will try and pop by and say hello next year.
In the interests of balance, I have encountered one or two bookmakers who have tried to pull a stroke – although, like the dodgy punters, they are the minority.
It might sound obvious but always check your ticket straightaway to make sure the stake and the price have been recorded correctly, particularly on meetings like Derby Day when the minority of unscrupulous bookies know they are dealing with a crowd who are not regular punters.
Thanks, Simon.
I’m not sure what ‘spun’ means. Does it refer to the use of a banknote counter?
I can honestly say that it’s not in a bookmaker’s interest so try and rip a punter off, the hassle if there’s a dispute would totally outweigh any gains. besides, reputation is everything in bookmaking. I’m sorry if that’s been your experience, despite how it looks I’d still guess that it was a genuine mistake.
Hi! Simon, it’s been a while.
How long would it take one of your team to “spin’ £5000. Having done quite a bit of note-counting in the past it can be tricky, both with old notes and these plastic ones which always seem rather attached to each? I was going to put ‘time pressure’ in there somewhere but then I thought – Nah!
“In the interests of balance, I have encountered one or two bookmakers who have tried to pull a stroke – although, like the dodgy punters, they are the minority.”
Yes I encountered one in Ireland. The favs were banging in two days solid at the Listowel festival and the Bookies were on their arses. One bookie did do a runner owing thousands but luckily this was the one I didn’t encounter.
The guy I had was short changing punters with their winnings. I noticed one had gone back but as he could not prove he had been done, as he had walked away when collecting his money, then the bookie would not pay him the extra. I had just had a bet with this bookie for the next race. The horse (fav) duly obliged. I went to collect along with a few others. He gave me my brass, not counting it out in front of me, but I had eagle eyes watching him getting it out of his bag. He gave this to me, not looking at me in the eye, but looking at the next winning punter. I noticed this was E50 light, so when I collected my hand remained perfectly still and I got his attention saying he had paid me light. He looked, apologised and paid me the extra 50.
I could have easily just walked off if I had not seen his previous indiscretion and I wondered how many other punters he’d tried it on with. Maybe I should have reported him but I didn’t.
Inredible that getting £100 e/w is impossible at any other bookmaker, yet ‘Simon Notts Starsports’ lay hundreds of thousands. Sounds legit.
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I think Simon’s material is always an interesting read.
IMO he finds angles other parts of the media miss and thinks outside the box – he does a cracking job in live stream broadcasts, reporting from Pointing betting rings too.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I’ve read about you complaining about the likes of Paddy Power turning your bets down many times ID. Why don’t you bet exclusively with these fearless multi-million pound layers Starsports?
BUY THE SUN
“Yes I encountered one in Ireland.”
Oh yes, I am sorry to say there are plenty of them in Ireland. It is incredible how often I have a bet at say the 7/4 clearly shown on the screen, only to see 13/8 on the ticket and the price changed on screen and be told “The price just changed, sir.”
Although the last time I was in Ireland, a bookmaker at Gowran Park almost overpaid me by €50. He was rather surprised when I gave it back!
As for Mr Nott’s reply that it is not worth a bookmaker pulling a stroke: as I said, most are OK but some do try it on at bigger meetings, especially the likes of Derby Day when they know they have a captive audience of people who know nothing about betting.
I can recall two occasions when I took a price only for a shorter price to appear on the ticket while the bigger price was still on screen.
Worse was the time when I backed a Godolphin favourite only to see the stake on the ticket was only half I had put on.
All these were corrected when challenged. If it had been just once, I might have accepted it as a mistake. But three times, with three separate bookmakers? Sorry, that is bookies trying it on.
“How long would it take one of your team to “spin’ £5000. Having done quite a bit of note-counting in the past it can be tricky, both with old notes and these plastic ones which always seem rather attached to each?”
Colin, while we await Simon’s return:
Two years ago a Chinese game show featured four banknote counting champions trying to beat the then world record of 178 notes correctly tallied in 30 seconds.
The winner clocked up 202 banknotes during that time. If you are an experienced note counter, and said notes are new and in the same orientation, it seems that £5,000 (100 x £50) can be spun in 15 seconds. If the notes are in various denominations, not new, and presented in a disorganised way by the punter, the time would clearly increase. It’ll be instructive to hear Simon’s take on your question.
Note that the first casualty of TV game shows, Chinese or otherwise, is the truth. It looks legitimate, though.
I forgot to mention the contestants were blindfolded.
“I’ve read about you complaining about the likes of Paddy Power turning your bets down many times ID. Why don’t you bet exclusively with these fearless multi-million pound layers Starsports?”
It’s a fair question, TTC, I was speaking positively about Simon’s work, I didn’t express a view either way on who he was working for.
The truth is that I’ve never had an account with StarSports – as, after a dozen closures or restrictions, I am left with just two accounts where I can get a bet laid, I might give them a try in due course.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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