- This topic has 121 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 11 months ago by
.
- Posts
In response to Fist: One possible reason the media have not been up in arms about it is that, since the very public humiliation and ex-communication of Matt C. from our screens, journalists and presenters are even more wary of voicing their true feelings about suspicious riding tactics; especially if it results in a potential lawsuit, a public apology and loss of one’s job. The covert words they now use are, "that was a strange ride" or "maybe the jockey knew he didn’t have a lot left in the tank" or "the horse didn’t seem to want to go past"
Fists you are full of it – that race was the most obvious collusion since the Bowes 2nd string jockey nearly had a heart attack when he thought he was about to overtake Solerina in her last race – whoa boy, whoa.
Mind you, its pretty obvious on balance of form everyone that Solerina had 30lb in hand on Florida Coast, so i suppose by your rationale that makes the result and incident acceptable also?
O.K. we are mostly on this thread disagreeing with Fist, but I think some have taken it a bit too far. We do not know anything was wrong with this race. I think people should examine their own posts and change a few words, otherwise Corm will be forced to pull the plug on it.
Eqitrack,
You talk of "facts", now I might agree with most of your assumptions, but to call them "facts" could get you and TRF in to trouble, they are your opinions of what happened.Mark
Value Is EverythingFist,
You keep saying about the trainer, if he was to complain to the stewards; how long do you think it would be before JP takes all his horses away? Trainer and jockey of the second have done wonderfully well in the past from the owner’s support. Do you really think they will jeopardize that?
When stewards hold enquireys it is very difficult to aportion any wrongdoing when all connections (of winner and second) are happy with the result.
On the media I think Ken puts it well, can’t add anymore. Ooops, does that mean I do not have my own opinion Fist? Verry sorry and all that.
One other possible advantage to this result for JP and co, might be if the handicapper rates L’Ami on his finishing position. He could be well handicapped for the X country handicap at the Festival.
Oh and to equate L’Ami with that dog Harchibald is rediculous. L’Ami has never thrown away a race in that manner. L’Ami made most of the running on Saturday, so can not be said to idle that badly in front can he?
I am not so "cock sure" of what happened as some on here Fist, but it did look suspicious and: From your last comment, are you saying JP knew who was going to win before they jumped the last? "JP was halfway to picking up his winnings before they jumped the last". Is this not what some here have been saying all along? May be Jonjo did tip you off after all.
Mark
Value Is EverythingWhy is Harchibald "a dog". Can people not get in to their heads that some horses run as fast as they can without being mullered by a small bloke with a whip. Maybe the ones who do run faster when hit are the "dogs".
Have read your other post Gingertipster, and altered my earlier post accordingly. You have a point.
On alighter note Ginge, this quote of yours "When stewards hold enquireys it is very difficult to aportion any wrongdoing when all connections (of winner and second) are happy with the result"
Have you had a hard day with your percentages or something?
William Nunneley (If he is still at Cheltenham)
"Bring in JP McManus."Good afternoon Mr McManus we would like to ask you are you happy with the way your horse won today?
JP MCManus: I am sir
William Nunneley: Thank you Mr McManus Good day to you.
William Nunneley: OI!! Charlie who’s next?
Charlie: JP McMaunus sir
William Nunneley; Ok Chalrlie send him in
William Nunneley "Good afternoon Mr McManus" "Nice to see you it’s been along time"
JP McMaunus: Smiles ryley
William Nunneley: Mr MCManus we would like to ask you are you happy with the way your horse lost today?
JP McMaunus: Eh! let me think……….to be sure he was doing his best and the winner of the first is a good mate, I have no complaints sir…… :lol
William Nunneley: That was fun Charlie lets skip talking to the two trainers and go have a gin and tonic
You’ve definately lost the plot mate take some time off
Connections mean trainer and jockey aswell as owner Fist. But I think you know that.
Mark
Value Is EverythingIn fairness to Fister, it may be the case that all the recent trouble at Bangkok airport has disrupted his supply of videos, and, this has meant that he’s had to rely on phone messages from " Connections" for his view as to what happened.
On the other hand, perhaps, he’s changed his views regarding the efficacy of the whip in riding finishes?
Very good post Equitrack – I happen to agree with you – Nathan Hughes subsequent post
I thought the turn of foot from the winner was more to do with the jockey putting in a good drive in comparison to JT who was motionless at that point.
was nigh on spot on too I reckon!
Oh, and if we’re having to qualify ourselves on the subject of having an opinion by stating whether or not we’ve ridden a racehorse – it’s been a while now, since I haven’t ridden one since, oh, this morning. I’ve ridden in around a dozen races as well, have I passed?
Despite Fist appearing to be in a minority on this matter, I must record my admiration of him in proving to be so tenacious in the wake of so much opposition. I am sure we all appreciate posters like Fist who are prepared to put their reputations on the line and have a good old debate. Well done Fist.
If Peter Naughton can advertise himself as "Scoop 6 winning tipster" then I reckon you’re OK SL
Very good post Equitrack – I happen to agree with you – Nathan Hughes subsequent post
I thought the turn of foot from the winner was more to do with the jockey putting in a good drive in comparison to JT who was motionless at that point.
was nigh on spot on too I reckon!
Oh, and if we’re having to qualify ourselves on the subject of having an opinion by stating whether or not we’ve ridden a racehorse – it’s been a while now, since I haven’t ridden one since, oh, this morning. I’ve ridden in around a dozen races as well, have I passed?
With flying colours,,,,,,I agree with Nathan too, but what I don’t understand is why some people think the best and only thing to do with all horses is to slap them across the backside and ride the hell out of them.
You surely must have ridden horses that respond differently to the type of ride the winner got?….I am sure you would agree, being a rider, some will quicken at the slightest touch and others wouldn’t quicken if you lit fire to their backside?….I just couldn’t see L’ami deriving any benefit from be pushed and shoved from 2 out like some people are suggesting…….I think the result would have been the same no matter what and had JT been the one who came with a challenge he would have not got the same response from his horse as she got from hers.
IMO If he had went for him 2 out or sooner all he would have done is unbalanced the horse, the winner would have still followed him through and still done him for toe.
She could have ended up beaten him even further if L’ami had expened energy earlier ..I thought she read the race really well and was where she wanted to be in the closing stages. She had Lami well covered from a long way out and any move he would have made, she knew she had the horse underneath her to pass him at will………Being from the same yard I think she knows both horses very well.
I think the better horse won and nothing JT could have done would have changed that…..There’s an old saying "assuming is the mind of fools when fools assume the impossible is possible" I’m not calling anyone a fool, Just making the point that race riding is not as straight forward as some people seem to think and you just can’t turn on a tap and always expect to get water……..I’m sorry if others don’t agree and I am not out to offend anyone but I am not going to think one thing and say another.
That would be ok (implying that L’Ami maybe does not respond the the whip) except for the fact that McNamara started to whip and ride the beast when the race was all but over. What would be the point of that?
Fist, the general concensus on this thread is that" L"ami" was never at any point asked to win the race until "Garde" had gone clear of him, and
when "L"ami" was finally asked for an effort, the jockey looked like he had
overslept and his alarm had just gone off and he was diving out of bed late for work!you just can’t turn on a tap and always expect to get water………
The point is Fist, that he didn’t appear to ‘turn the tap on’ until the race was virtually over!
And lets not even get into the ‘curious’ pull L’Ami recieved just before the final flight (as Garde Champetre went on).
The point is no one else mentions the ride being what you make it out to be……only the would be experts on here are the ones complaining about it.
I defy anyone to show me ONE newspaper article, another forum or anything that indicates something was amiss aprt from the rubbish written on here.
The trainer said
"I was pleased with L’Ami, too, but he just doesn’t have the finishing speed of the other one."
That is exactly how I saw the race……..one Jockey on a one paced old cow of a thing.holdng him together for as long as he cold being passed by a much classier animal with plenty toe.
No pullin the head of it no looking round and waiting for Nina to catch up.
All these one liners you write have no substance and none of you are saying what he should of done and why.
If anyone else has anything to say let’s have a bit of race reading and tell me why you think I am wrong……..Love to hear what you thinkwould have happened had JT started riding the horse for all he was worth 3 out…..or at least something concrete,
So no more cheap one liners guys like" What about the pull he took" Now we got JT taking a pull (trying to stop the horse) going to the last…..I think the man was perhaps geting him on the right stride to jump the fence which is a totally different thing mate.
http://talkinghorses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13660
That took two seconds to find.
A quote from Final furlong Racing :
"Did I mishear Lydia’s comment when they replayed the cross-country field approaching the finishing line? After JT McNamara had looked over his shoulder to find out where Nina was and she passed him without too significant an amount of reaction from the eventual second, I’m sure Lydia said something like "they gave in a little easily there, didn’t they?" Given the size of the bets on the winner with nothing for the second plus them being in the same ownership (and trainer), is there a case for French linked betting for any horse in the same ownership?"
Over to you, Fists.
Colin
ps Fists, you remind me of Mrs. Thatcher, in that you believe that if you say something often enough it becomes a fact.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.