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What is the pace going to be like?
Rewilding won the Prince Of Wales last time out @ 1m2f beating So You Think.
Workforce got beat in the Eclipse by So You Think @ 1m2f.
St Nicholas Abbey won @ 1m5f and 1m4f this year.
Nathaniel won @ 1m4f and is a staying type.
Would it be in Rewilding’s favour for his stable companion pacemaker to make a slow pace?
Why should Godolphin make the pace at a speed which helps their rivals? It was a distinct possibility if not probability they were going to slow it down. Owners of both St Nich and Workforce only have themselves to blame for not putting in a pacemaker.
And Mo, there is absolutely no evidence a slow early pace contributed to Rewilding’s death. Horses break cannon bones in the field or on gallops, or racing at slow or fast pace.
Value Is EverythingThe tactics on Debussy were perplexing and I’d be interested if there is some kind of justification for them from the Godolphin team
I’ve just watched the race again. Debussy only wound up the pace from Swinley Bottom. There may have been some brief contact between Workforce and Rewilding but I could see nothing of major significance affecting Rewilding. Frankie was pushing and shoving on Rewilding a good half furlong or so before he broke down – thankfully the BBC’s replay has edited the fall out.
However I can’t see how it can be suggested that Godolphin’s tactics played any part whatsoever in the fate of Rewilding. He took a bad step and broke his leg – it can happen in any kind of race or breezy canter on the gallops.
I understood that every horse, even pacemakers are supposed to run on their merit,like the Ballydoyle horses did in the Derby and Irish Guineas.Incidentally Confront,Stouity’s pacemaker in the Coral Eclipse did not run fairly; boxing in SYT after allowing Workforce to pass on the inside.I remember the Stewards called Aidan in to explain the role of the pacemaker,some years ago.Perhaps they need explain the rules to their local trainers.The Godolfin pacemaker violated both the spirit and the rule for pacemakers.And the Sheik is a real sportsman according to some.If trained by Ballydoyle you can imagine the uproar.The pacemaker was intended to slow down the race!!.Poetic justice they sadly call such an outcome.I anticipate a statement from the authorities on the matter.Incidentally does Stoute ever accept defeat without making excuses? Firstly in the Derby now this.Lost a shoe,got kicked by another horse,quit the whining and get over it.
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Maybe it’s coincidental, or maybe it’s not, but Rewilding’s ‘false step’ came within 100 yards of where he appeared to run into he back of Workforce, and that – allied to his undoubted contribution to the planning of tactics – makes Frankie as culpable as anyone, in this whole sordid charade of a race.
Wonder Frankie did not rush into the Stewards Room and ask for Moore to be suspended for backing into him.
Didn’t mean that what happened to Rewilding was a direct result of the Godolphin tactics, but possibly an indirect result of the repercussions of them..the bunching up etc. Sadly I was only thinking [gratefully] the other day of how few tragedies such as this happen in top class races, Horatio Nelson being the only one that sprang to mind and the poor horse who died in the Derby.
Didn’t mean that what happened to Rewilding was a direct result of the Godolphin tactics, but possibly an indirect result of the repercussions of them..the bunching up etc. Sadly I was only thinking [gratefully] the other day of how few tragedies such as this happen in top class races, Horatio Nelson being the only one that sprang to mind and the poor horse who died in the Derby.
Yeah, Coshocton.
It seems some are jumping on Joseph O’B as riding a bad race, but I haven’t heard a word against Ajtebi yet. Did he even ride to his orders?I for one am not saying Joseph rode poorly.I am saying the task set him was one for a seasoned professional jockey like the best available.Joseph is just a boy with little experience of the tactics called for to win Group One races.To be sent out to compete with Moore,Dettori,Buick was just too much.He seemed mesmerized.For his own good I believe he should have to prove himself as a jockey like other winners of the Irish Apprentice Championship.Like for instance Cathy Gannon.Let him come over to England like Queally or Spencer and prove himself.Ballydoyle owe it to their horses as well as to their apprentices.Take yesterdays race,do you think Fallon would have gotten lost in the middle of the race or allowed the winner to steal so much ground?He was the only jockey to cop on to Murtagh in the English Oaks.Seems like Coolmore are so successful that they don’t have to win anymore.Pity.And Godolfin are so desperate that they will try anything to win.More Pity.
Joseph O’Brien waited until the 2 furlong mark to roust up St Nicholas Abbey which would have infuriated me if I were on him. Especially since it was a slow run race (and the others went for home already). Unless he only has a 2f sprint that was a shocking decision.
Ryan Moore went for him over 3f out in the Coronation Cup but maybe because he was struggling on the corner?Not to mention the lack of urgency he showed letting SNA drift back when turning in… unnecessarily giving up ground like that is the worst thing you can do in a sit-sprint.
I haven’t watched the race again to look at Debussy, but Rewilding won a slow-run Dubai Sheema Classic in stunning fashion. So maybe that was the plan? But a user on here supported Zarkava’s idea that the way of going was the issue after reviewing the ride.
Maybe it’s coincidental, or maybe it’s not, but Rewilding’s ‘false step’ came within 100 yards of where he appeared to run into he back of Workforce, and that – allied to his undoubted contribution to the planning of tactics – makes Frankie as culpable as anyone, in this whole sordid charade of a race.
Thank you Reet Hard, for being the only person who picked up on what I said on page 12. Yes, maybe it is a coincidence. Maybe RW did not cause WF’s hind leg injury, possibly leading to his dive to the left. Maybe RW’s fracture did not result from his unbalancing in that clipping heels incident.But it all looks a bit iffy to me.
But, IMHO, what really f****d up that whole horrible race, was sneaky and nasty tactics, instead of letting the horses run to their own merits and abilities. I hope I never see anything like it again.
I think questions have to be asked of Dettori and RW’s connections. The whole race was a shambles, due to "tactics".
While trying really hard not to take anything away from Nathaniel, he wasn’t generally regarded as the best horse, but was talented enough to pick up on the misfortunes of the 2 very short-priced favourites. A hollow victory.
Also would like to point out that SNA’s inexperienced jockey may have been a bit fazed by the whole disastrous shambles and not ridden to the best of his ability. He seems to have attracted quite a bit of stick for his result, but the whole race seems to have been a very difficult thing to judge with all that was happening in a very short space of time.
Hence the need for a world class jockey.
Oh perleeze!! Suggests that you think someone like Dettori, given his dubious tactics in this particular race, would have got SNA home in first place. Have to express some doubts on that one.
And, sadly, we can never know. That’s racing.
A horrible race. Not truly run. And best forgotten (If we can ever get that horrible image out of our minds!).
A bizarre race to say the least. I thought Nathaniel was a worthy winner, and although Workforce was neither suited by the slow early pace or veering violently left in the closing stages, it is conceivable that he wouldn’t have beaten Nathaniel in any case.
Maybe John Gosden will consider by-passing the St.Leger and aim the colt for the Arc instead ? Afterall, should it come up soft at Longchamps ( as it often does ) then he would have a good chance of winning.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I’m getting extremely bored of reading the conspiracy theories regarding Debussy in every single post. You all think the Moon landings were actually staged in a New York warehouse too?
Debussy’s 5 career victories have come at Lingfield, Epsom, Chester, Arlington and Maisons-Lafitte. 4 left-handed tracks and a straight 10 furlongs.
Debussy’s efforts on right-hand courses have resulted in;
A 10th at Ascot, beaten 41L in the King Edward, earning the comments ‘raced freely, switched sharply right after start, flashed tail well over 2f out’
A 5th at Deauville, earning the comment ‘hung left’ (exactly what he tried doing for the opening furlongs yesterday)
A 7th at Ascot in the Prince of Wales’ behind Byword, ‘raced keenly’
A 7th at Ascot in the Prince of Wales’ behind Rewilding, ‘raced keenly’
And obviously his 4th yesterday, ‘took keen hold’
And do you know what else?
Not once has he earned any similar comment around a left-handed or straight track.
You’re all just embarrassing yourself with this constant talk of setting a slow pace to try and unsettle Workforce. Rewilding was
behind
Workforce, not in front. Do you understand what happens if a slow pace is set? Horses who race at the back find it near impossible to win. Just basic horse racing facts and I’m really shocked that so many of you have resorted to these farcical theories. An Eclipse 2nd by a 2000 Guineas winner vs a former St. Leger favourite whose half-siblings have all been stayers including Dar Re Mi, hmmm I wonder who the faster horse is…
Maybe John Gosden will consider by-passing the St.Leger and aim the colt for the Arc instead ? Afterall, should it come up soft at Longchamps ( as it often does ) then he would have a good chance of winning.
When did it last come up soft for the Arc? 8 years ago, no?
I’m getting extremely bored of reading the conspiracy theories regarding Debussy in every single post. You all think the Moon landings were actually staged in a New York warehouse too?
Debussy’s 5 career victories have come at Lingfield, Epsom, Chester, Arlington and Maisons-Lafitte. 4 left-handed tracks and a straight 10 furlongs.
Debussy’s efforts on right-hand courses have resulted in;
A 10th at Ascot, beaten 41L in the King Edward, earning the comments ‘raced freely, switched sharply right after start, flashed tail well over 2f out’
A 5th at Deauville, earning the comment ‘hung left’ (exactly what he tried doing for the opening furlongs yesterday)
A 7th at Ascot in the Prince of Wales’ behind Byword, ‘raced keenly’
A 7th at Ascot in the Prince of Wales’ behind Rewilding, ‘raced keenly’
And obviously his 4th yesterday, ‘took keen hold’
And do you know what else?
Not once has he earned any similar comment around a left-handed or straight track.
You’re all just embarrassing yourself with this constant talk of setting a slow pace to try and unsettle Workforce. Rewilding was
behind
Workforce, not in front. Do you understand what happens if a slow pace is set? Horses who race at the back find it near impossible to win. Just basic horse racing facts and I’m really shocked that so many of you have resorted to these farcical theories. An Eclipse 2nd by a 2000 Guineas winner vs a former St. Leger favourite whose half-siblings have all been stayers including Dar Re Mi, hmmm I wonder who the faster horse is…
The contradiction to all that is that, if Debussy performs so poorly around Ascot, why use him as the pacemaker in the first place? Why not choose one that won’t struggle on the pace on a course that he hates?
The answer to why Debussy turned up at all is either that they deliberately wanted to turn the race into a tactical farce, or that they are incompetent. Godolphin are not the latter, that much i’m sure of.If they’re not incompetent, then why did they choose to run Rewilding at the back if they knew Debussy was going to play around and lead to a non-gallop? They’d have sent Rewilding into the lead or just behind Debussy. That’s where your idea falls down.
Personally I believe they didn’t even think about Debussy acting around Ascot. They thought to themselves ‘he’s better going left-handed but he’s just a pacemaker and only has to gallop at a decent clip’, just as I’d have done. I knew all his career victories were going left-handed before the race but I didn’t realise that he’d messed around quite that much going right-handed before I wrote that post.
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