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Very possibly. All I know is that if he turns up in the Gold Cup I’ll be looking to have max stakes on a match bet with anything with four legs…
He ran ok, they didnt beat the crap out of him, he was given a tender ride too my mind, he could spring a huge surprise!!!!!!
Sorry guys you are absulutely dreaming. Even at his best he wouldn’t be half the horse of Kauto Star and you think he could cause a shock when he’s nothing like the horse he was?……….c’mon guys get a grip the only shock he will cos is if he actually arrives at the course…….waste of time and money running him.
Fist
That’s a bit unfair I think. Didn’t you comment in an earlier thread on comparing times of Desert Orchid and Kauto Star in the King George to confirm KS better than DO yet when I pointed out that on the same described ground Kicking King had run 11 secs faster than Kauto Star it was met by silence. If it wasn’t for Kicking King getting injured I don’t think you would be getting all excited about Kauto Star being the first to win back to back Gold Cups and King Georges as Kicking King would possibly have done that by winning the 2006 Gold Cup such was the poor quality of that field. Now I’m not saying KK at his best would have beaten KS but around Kempton over 3M I believe it would be interesting. To say at his best he’s not half the horse Kauto Star is IMHO complete billhooks. After this weekend I like you would be surprised to see him line up, KK that is
Not half the horse is a figure of speech used on a daily basis and you are not meant to take it literally.
However his overall record hasn’t a patch on Kauto Stars. He had a short peiod of about 4 months when he looked like a good horse but his Gold Cup was one of the poorest for 20 years.
BTW When I compared times it was over the last 3 fences not the entire race. It was purely an excersice to try and find out who was the fastest horse at the business end of the race.
Just looking at the King George and Gold cup wins a glance tells me just how bad an era that was…….worse than Best Mates IMO.
The King George he is almost turned over by Monkerhostin with a non stayer in third……..Kauto beat Monkerostin, still only a 9 year old, by 30 lenths with a very good horse ED 8 lengths behind and in this last race he looked like Arkle reborn he was that impressive. Easiest winner I have ever seen in the KG.
While he won it well KK beat an absolute boat in his Gold Cup got suffed sideways by War of Atrition at Punchestown and you say he would have won the Gold Cup against the same horse………. that’s a very brave statement to make.
I’m sorry if I am offending you buy stating facts but facts they are.
If the Monkerhostin line is to be believed he wasn’t even in the class of Exotic Dancer and would be hard pushed to be in the first three in this Gold Cup on his best form.
To be honest I found the Kicking King, War of Attrition, Rooster Booster Hardy Eustace Bave Inca era extremely boring, with not a real star among them.
Now we have Kauto Star, Denman Exotic Dancer, Sizing Europe, Franchoek, Noland, Binocular and Master Minded all of which look class acts to enjoy.
Kicking King simply isn’t coming back and even if he had he would be out of his class IMO
The King George he (KK) is almost turned over by Monkerhostin with a non stayer in third……..Kauto beat Monkerostin, still only a 9 year old, by 30 lenths with a very good horse ED 8 lengths behind and in this last race he looked like Arkle reborn he was that impressive. Easiest winner I have ever seen in the KG.
If the Monkerhostin line is to be believed he wasn’t even in the class of Exotic Dancer and would be hard pushed to be in the first three in this Gold Cup on his best form.
I think it’s fair to say that something happened Kicking King on the run-in of that King George – he didn’t appear on a racecourse afterwards until last month.
Good horse though Kicking King undoubtedly was, I think his best days are gone.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Fist you seem to find good horses boring unless they are trained at Ditcheat
Go back to sleep BlueC and stop posting garbage
Sizing Europe, Binocular and Exotic Dancer aren’t trained by PN…..and if you would like a list of 1000 other horses who I didn’t find boring to watch just ask…and See More Business PN won’t be among them. 
To be honest I found the Kicking King, War of Attrition, Rooster Booster Hardy Eustace Bave Inca era extremely boring, with not a real star among them.
Now we have Kauto Star, Denman Exotic Dancer, Sizing Europe, Franchoek, Noland, Binocular and Master Minded all of which look class acts to enjoy.
Posted: 18 Feb 2008 12:45 Post subject:
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Fist you seem to find good horses boring unless they are trained at Ditcheat
Im sure FOF can reply for himself, but as i far as i recall, not all of those are trained by the greatest trainer
But was "boring" quite the right description FOF? But the bar has been raised in staying chases for sure and its entirely possible that the same might apply to other divisions (although unlikely in 2m chases)
Fist
Never let the facts ruin a good story eh ?
"He had a short peiod of about 4 months when he looked like a good horse but his Gold Cup was one of the poorest for 20 years. "
It was a poor field , agreed but still 5 or 6 160+ rated horses in the field although he did beat a 148 rated horse 5 lengths in to second.
Kauto Star managed to win with a 147 rated horse 5 lengths in third, with a on the downgrade Monkerhostin a further 4 lengths behind in 4th.
Exotic Dancer IMHO you understand is overrated. In two King Georges he has finished within spitting distance of Racing Demon who is mid 160’s horse at best. Maybe ED is a 10-12lb better horse going the other way round, possibly ?
I did say that around Kempton over 3M it would be interesting, the King George where KK beat Monkerhostin when as Davidbrady noted something went wrong was at Sandown.
And finally you wrote
"To be honest I found the Kicking King, War of Attrition, Rooster Booster Hardy Eustace Bave Inca era extremely boring, with not a real star among them.
Now we have Kauto Star, Denman Exotic Dancer, Sizing Europe, Franchoek, Noland, Binocular and Master Minded all of which look class acts to enjoy. "
Can I assume the majority of these class animals you have ante-post ? Maybe you weren’t on the horses listed in the extremely boring era of the previous ones ?
No you can’t assume that I have Bin, Kauto,Noland and SE that’s 50% of them.
I bet Kicking King in the Gold Cup was hard not to……War of Attrition I backed EW AP before the race but he wasn’t my main choice but what’s that got to do with anything?
Most guys on here that think Kickcing King, Best Mate Rooster Booster Hardy Eustace Bave Inca were great horses are under 30 years of age and because they were in their era they think they are superstars, Time will change their minds I assure you.
I went through the same thing when I saw my first Champion Hurdler when I look back now geez! was he ordinary. However my Fist GC was Arkle and he is some yardstick when you talk about class horses…….
Please stop firing 160’s and 140 whatever at me……They have absolutely no reflection on how good Kauto is in comparison to Kicking King….he would have given him a stone at Kempton and everything else that day and still won in a canter..I really don’t think you quite realise how good this horse is. He’s bordering on being talked about in the same breath as Arkle something no other horse has done in 40 years…..he wins at Cheltenham wait for it!!!!!
Incidentally do not underestimate Racing Demon he is one very good horse and will make a mockery of his rating. He ‘s definately improving and there’s a big race to be won with him. For me he has a great future over fences.
"Most guys on here that think Kickcing King, Best Mate Rooster Booster Hardy Eustace Bave Inca were great horses are under 30 years of age and because they were in their era they think they are superstars, Time will change their minds I assure you. "
If only I was under 30 !
40 I’m afraid. I don’t think any of the above are superstars either but I’m hard to please, although I will say Best Mate could only beat what was put in front of him and was probably better than given credit for by some. Both he and Kicking King at their best were decent animals and IMHO would certainly beat Exotic Dancer hands down. And as for "They have absolutely no reflection on how good Kauto is in comparison to Kicking King….he would have given him a stone at Kempton and everything else that day and still won in a canter.." , Sorry but no.Apologies for firing official ratings at you but not everyone has your superior "feel" for greatness, some of us have to work on official ratings as a guide. Believe it or not even Arkle had an official rating.
Finally
"Incidentally do not underestimate Racing Demon he is one very good horse and will make a mockery of his rating. He ‘s definately improving and there’s a big race to be won with him. For me he has a great future over fences."
We’ll have to disagree again. Don’t think Cheltenham is the place for him and the King George is probably his best chance of a big one and surely Kauto Star has that in the bag for the next few years ? I think he’ll pick up a Grade 2 or so round Huntingdon, Exeter etc as I can’t really see Henrietta Knight entering him a handicap real soon
"However his overall record hasn’t a patch on Kauto Stars. He had a short peiod of about 4 months when he looked like a good horse but his Gold Cup was one of the poorest for 20 years."
Its fair to say the Gold Cup is not the ideal test for a horse like Kicking King. He won it despite the distance and despite the fact he was sitting in his box for 10 days up until 10 days before the Gold Cup due to illness.
Any reasonable judge would surely be better judging him on his outstanding effort in the Durkan Chase, his heart stopping win in the King George where he had one of the best two milers of recent years Azertyuiop beat a mile out and his run in the Arkle against the outstanding Well Chief. Why focus on one run simply because it’s the Gold Cup. Kauto Star’s worst run in Grade 1 company was arguably in the Gold Cup…but we know he is better than that run.
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I’ve never seen Arkle (I’ve read plenty about him however) or flyingbolt but if the latter was rated 212 I would hazard a guess that Kauto will not be far behind after the Gold Cup… Or at least he shouldn;t be – Though it will be hard to ever justify a rating over 200 in the modern day (I would expect given improvements in training and medicine/equine care that Kauto would actualy beat Arkle if you could place them both on a course in their pomp)
There is no way on gods earth Arkle would have beaten Kauto star by 30 lengths or more (Which the ratings suggest) over the GC trip though… Especially not over 3m or any distance short of that.. People forget Arkle was beaten twice in his pomp in the hennessy and over 2m5f in the massey fergusson.. So much like, Kauto he was not infallible.
Damn you beat me to it Aragorn. Of course he is very unlikely to be 20lbs better than Kauto. Comparing ratings 4 years apart is difficult enough without it being 40
Ive often found it a bit odd that so many have cribbed KK At his best he definately wasnt in Kauto’s class (or Denmans probably). I think we can all agree with that, but there have been far less inspiring winners of both the GC (especially) and the KG.
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