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Very few of the 93,628 square miles that make up the United Kingdom are taken up by racecourses. Find somewhere else to build your houses you greedy bastards.
Lubricated verbosity apart it is quite noteworthy that he and several other members of the racing fraternity you’d expect to be up in arms about the possible closure don’t actually seem too bothered: Twister, Jonjo and particularly Ruby Walsh, who’d have better reasons than many to mourn its passing
Drone, that shower would be happy for every last thing and the bulk of prize money increases to be directed to Cheltenham
Tremendous from Tom Kerr in the RP
I’d say Walsh still has his Confirmation money.
Good to see the politics of spite and envy still has a place in the 21st Century – this article would be more appropriate in the Morning Star or Pravda
Comrade Tom at his socialist best!!!!
Actually, Paul, Kerr’s article is spot on and as balanced as any on the issue I’ve read. It’s sad you have joined the camp of the enemy within alongside Down, Walsh, Twiston-Davies, O’Neill et al. The stewards of JCR should go now along with their proposal before it causes divisions too deep to heal.
An interesting response considering you don’t even know what my position is on the sale of Kempton Park.
What I was complaining about was the bile filled popping at the members of the JC for being elitist – it was a manifestation of the politics of envy at it’s very worse. A socialist diatribe and in taking that approach he undermined any argument he was making.
As regards my view on the closure I’m actually quite neutral on the matter and I can see both sides of the argument.
If the plans for development are approved it is, from a business perspective, a no brainer and that was my initial view.
However, I have to confess Kempton is never a course I have never really warmed to, I’ve always found it cold both atmospherically and physically – like Epsom it only comes into it’s own a couple of days a year.
However I then thought how would I feel if it were Fontwell which was facing closure, a course I do have an emotional attachment to – and yes I would be up in arms.
I know Clivexx (I’ve lost count of the number of xxx’s he uses now) pretty well and have spent many days racing with him at both Kempton and Ascot and I can fully understand his stance because he has the emotional attachment to teh course.
However turning it round, I would ask Clive – if it was not a course to which you were emotionally attached and considering your “day job” would you not see the financial logic behind the reasoning?
As I said I can see both sides, however I’m also a strong believer that emotion has no place in business.
Also, as I have consistently stated over the years on this forum, I have always believed and still do believe there are far too many racecourses in this country. Racing is becoming less and less financially viable, let’s face it most courses are subsidised by non-racing interests.
Closing one of Kempton, Sandown or Epsom does make sense – where else are there three courses in such close proximity? Although in reality it’s a choice of two as Epsom is on common land and therefore cannot be developed. Personally I would rather close Sandown and reopen the Jubilee course at Kempton and have that as a top quality turf / AW flat and jumps course.
Emotion is what sport sells, Paul. Its what we buy at the end of the day. No emotion, no JCR.
Also, as I have consistently stated over the years on this forum, I have always believed and still do believe there are far too many racecourses in this country. Racing is becoming less and less financially viable, let’s face it most courses are subsidised by non-racing interests.
The extant racecourses are a wonderful anachronism that have managed, rather amazingly, to survive more or less unchanged since I fell in love with this cloistered other world well over forty years ago
As the books by Messrs Pitt and Slusar point out, the number of courses that closed during the first two-thirds or so of the 20th century was considerable with relatively few since and, remarkably, even a couple of new ones added to the roster. Which means either that all is hunky dory and thriving or we have been privileged to enjoy lengthy stays of execution on death row. I favour the latter scenario, so vive la difference while we can
I’d guess, and hope, that racecourses have always catered for non-racing pursuits as all would otherwise stand empty most of the time; which, given that many – Kempton being a good case in point – are situated in prime locations, would be a shameful waste of a valuable community resource
My local course York usually has some function or other going on in the stands: today ITV’s ‘Dickinson’s Real Deal’ are holding a valuation day
What’ll you give me for this wheelbarrow full of racecards Alison?
Drone on the goggler? I’ll let you know
Paul. I know that you were always a bit ambivalent about the place. As it happens I’m off there today . Are you at ascot next week?
To answer th question. If sandown was very similar and could take substantially more racing then the case would be hard to argue against. Also you can make a “business case” for most things. The Jc should be running a sport not a warehouse
The business case should be looked at from all angles and if you want to realise an asset then surely the least useful is the one you dispose of. And as Tom Kerr and others have rightly stated, they are hanging on the wall of the jockey club. Christ I could almost understand it they were degas stunning impressionist racing scenes but Stubbs is boring
Imagine a football club chairman selling the stadium whilst keeping the clubs Monets hanging on his bedroom wall? He would be lynched
As has been stated correctly throughout the thread, the course is very special in pure racing terms and this weeks news has probably highlighted this to an even greater extent
Being a course that I have probably been to on 200 occasions then of course it would be mixed feelings. Have to also say the jumps members room is far far better than the cramped hole at Sandown
I just don’t think that sandown will be able to take the fixtures. I sense th Kgv would end up at ascot. The old racing post day could go to sandown as could at least one of those two rather decent November Monday cards. Perhaps the oct Sunday before the ground gets too horrible. Maybe a march fixture too
As a total aside, it would be nice to see Windsor pitch back in with fixtures.
ruby down twister and Jonjo. If that lot are for it then I’m automatically against it. In fairness to laughing boy ruby he was more mixed than dismissive .
I didn’t read the down piece. I can’t read any of his stuff without a sick bucket to hand
Actually Paul, pure bottom line doesn’t drive most businessses. As you know I work with plenty of business owners and many could simply earn more in the corporate world. Also if you could earn so much creating advertising say but more cleaning bogs at after a music festival, what would you do. There is a strong element of vocation involved in much business decision making.
I just caught the last line. You would really close sandown. Interesting.
Drone. I bet York is worth a few bob too. An overrated venue imo and perhaps a good case….?
York’s on common land Clive. The enclosures and track itself are on some sort of convoluted long lease from the council. It’s a lovely recreational acreage for the citizens of York but is not actually much good for anything else as it tends to flood most winters
I live but a stones-throw from the pre-parade ring so do have a soft spot for the place but given the choice between Yorkshire’s two grade 1s much prefer Doncaster
Had you down as more a Rothko man than a Degas
Abrstacts are my thing. Rothko ok but Pollock is the giant for me (the Blue Posts at the RA this autumn was as stunning a piece of work as I’ve ever seen) Clifford Still was a revelation too.
One lie that I’ve tired of hearing over the week is that “no one attends apart from Boxing Day”
the second days attendance was bigger than for any jumps meeting at sandown,bar the tingle creek, but so was the may bank holiday fixture
Obviously been a lot of talk about this over the last few days and I certainly would not wish for Kempton to close (admittedly I have only been racing their twice despite not living that far away (about 30 miles drive), once to the Lanzarote card when there was also a replacement for the old Victor Chandler and once to a summer AW flat meeting so as Mrs Carryonkatie could see Peter Andre :wacko:). The place provides a good (turf) racing surface and good well built fences which are a very fair test benefitting the accurate fluid jumper.
Tend to be a bit ambivalent to the AW and never really got why Turf flat racing couldn’t continue alongside the Poly – especially with the Jubilee course mothballed – but suspect (like others) this was part of JCR’s “masterplan” to try to ensure ambivalence to it’s pending departure once announced. Likewise, outside of the Christmas Festival headline races, it feels like the rest of Kempton’s race programme has either flatlined or worse been downgraded over the year and the fact that there was only about 2,000 for a decent(ish) Saturday jump card would be music to Mr Bazalgette and co’s ears.
While a lot of the talk seems to have been heart (how dare JCR supposed custodian of racing even consider closing one of their racetracks) vs head (London property market) yet numbers are very vague. As Graham Cunningham noted first in his Sporting Life column and also Saturday on RUK, the numbers currently available paint an incomplete picture.
JCR expect to raise £100million from the sale, yet are promising £500 million investment. With estimates of 3,000 dwellings (including some so-called “affordable housing”) work out at approx £33,000 per plot which doesn’t seem a lot for suburban London real estate. I suspect the potential big winners of this deal is Redrow the developers, with the loose change going into the pockets of Bazalgette and friends.
Presuming Kempton is closed – whether sold or mothballed by JCR to try to force the council’s hand – I’m would consider Ascot to be a more suitable home then Sandown. Appreciate Sandown has successfully hosted the King George in the past (second of Kicking King’s KGVI – One Man’s KGVI was on Sandown’s Tolworth card due to a weather abandonment), like many others on this forum I don’t think – even with improved drainage – they can cope with a rat-a-tat fixture list of Tingle Creek (2 days), King George (2 days) and then the Tolworth.
This will involve some horsetrading between Ascot and JCR but maybe this is a chance to create a 3 day Xmas Festival at Ascot (King George, Kauto Star, Wessex Trust (ex-Ladbroke) Hcp Hdl on Boxing Day, Desert Orchid, Xmas Hdl and Noel Nov Chase on 27th, Long Walk & Wayward Lad on 28th). Aintree then move the Becher Chase card to the pre-Xmas slot currently held by Ascot with the Kennel Gate transferring to Aintree. (Only an idea mind). Aintree’s slot on Tingle Creek day will be taken by another JCR track such as Warwick or Exeter.
Long road ahead though as it sounds like the Council are dead against it and that main road between Sunbury and Hampton Court can be a bottleneck at the best of times! However, money has a habit of talking in these matters so I sense Kempton is doomed Captain!
At least Hereford is back!
All the best
SeanI completely agree with Paul Nicholls that Ascot should host the King George. Same way round, same sort of jumping test and could cope with the crowd or even improve on it. Plus there are no trains on Boxing Day so how can you possibly have one of the biggest meetings of the year moved to Sandown where half the crowd go by train!
Another thing to add to that is that some twits have said “ah yes. Sandown is 20 mins from Waterloo whereas kemoton is 36,”. Let’s forget the 15 minute walk at the other end as opposed to 30 seconds then shall we.
One infuriating thing has been comments by those that have never been to the course. This forum has been an excellent discussion but elsewhere I have seen the course described as a “cesspit” by a liar who claims to have been and also claims that the viewingis “terrible”. You don’t have to like the place but neither view is anywhere close to being truthful
One infuriating thing has been comments by those that have never been to the course. This forum has been an excellent discussion but elsewhere I have seen the course described as a “cesspit” by a liar who claims to have been and also claims that the viewingis “terrible”. You don’t have to like the place but neither view is anywhere close to being truthful
I have to agree with you on that one Clive.
Whilst I don’t think the course has a great atmosphere I certainly wouldn’t call t a cesspit – if nothing else it has a better selection of food than most courses.
In terms of viewing – there are many racecourses with far worse viewing. The only poor viewing at the course is the far turn from the the outer loop of the AW track when the lights are on. Viewing of the jumps track is absolutely fine. At least it doesn’t have a sodding hill in the middle of the course like Warwick, a housing estate like Brighton or a grandstand in the centre of the course like Chelmsford lol
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