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Where are Racing UK in all of this (other than Nick Luck’s interview)? Do they not claim to own the courses from which they broadcast, so are they not part of JCR??
The jockey club and the other courses own racing uk, therefore racing uk don’t have a say in it as it is a jockey club only matter it is nothing to do with the other courses.
So much in this story, but here are a few more points that have not been highlighted in the discussion so far:
1) The Call for Sites is only the first stage in the process – so it is way off any consideration by the planning committee. The Call for Sites is part of a technical assessment process, called the Strategic Land Availability Assessment. Potential sites can be for housing, employment or a mix of those uses and will be assessed using SLAA methodology for the suitability, availability and achievability for residential and economic use development.
https://www.spelthorne.gov.uk/SLAA
The Call For Sites proforma that JCR/Redrow will have filled in is on the web link and shows some of the key considerations for Spelthorne (& Runnymede) Councils: student homes, traveller sites, homes suitable for older people.
2) The JCR partner organisation is Redrow Homes
Redrow are expanding into the South east, in both London and Kent (Ebbsfleet Green). Their website gives an indication of the sorts of housing developments they build (the minimum for a one-bed apartment is ~£350k), and the areas of London that they currently have properties in. It’s clear from their map why they might want to expand south of the river into SW London. But realistically the location could be Sandown or Epsom just as much as Kempton.
https://www.redrow.co.uk/locations/london
Are these really the sorts of developments that are going to deliver the housing priorities for the council? I’m not convinced.
3) JCR – “follow the money”! What is going on when a CE goes on record (in times of historically low interest rates and where the banks are falling over themselves to lend) saying that they’ve reached their borrowing limit? What does this say about either the risk on JCR or the bank’s view of their business plans? What we’ve seen emerge so far (especially in the Nick Luck interview, and in the FAQs on the JC website) is little more than an un-costed wish list i.e. it’s a long way from a business plan. Perhaps that’s the problem? Or, perhaps the levels of debt require selling off one of the most profitable assets?
Joe mentions the retail bond that part-financed Cheltenham. Originally, JCR News suggests they were looking to raise £15m (of £45m), but interest rates of 4.75% attracted rather more interest (!) – ~£25m. These are fixed-rate 5-year bonds, due to mature in 2018, so the annual interest pay out on that (which should be coming from income) is north of £1m.
4) Kempton v Sandown as NH racecourses: the heritage arguments re JCR have already been well made but there are further aspects to the ground/configuration. Kempton is a flat, well drained, good ground track that is key for NH trainers whose stables have plenty of ‘flat-bred’ horses (e.g. NJH, Alan King). Take out Kempton and they may be needing to travel further (e.g. to Donnie) to get suitable ground for those horses, thereby increasing operating costs. If the premier mid-winter races in England shift to Sandown then the premium will be on a proper jumps-bred staying horse with a liking for winter ground, so sourcing/buying strategies may need to change.
For those who might be so minded, here is a link to the online petition to Save Kempton
It looks a high rate of return now but looked just on the right side of generous when it was issued. I remember someone from Hargreaves Lansdown saying what a poor deal it would be for investors
The bond was unlisted, therefore not covered by the FSCS. Basically investors were giving an unsecured loan to the Jockey Club. To the best of my knowledge the interest was taxable as well. Hence the junk bond coupon.
Looking at it now, the fact they didn’t just borrow the Cheltenham money from a financial institution given the basement lending rates at the time, perhaps even as far back as 2013 they had stretched their line of “regular” credit as far as it would go.
Be interesting to know where the other 400 million is coming from.
Continuing in the vein of ‘follow the money’ …
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00806698/filing-history
The second pdf (Dec 2015) is the interesting one.
It looks a high rate of return now but looked just on the right side of generous when it was issued. I remember someone from Hargreaves Lansdown saying what a poor deal it would be for investors
The bond was unlisted, therefore not covered by the FSCS. Basically investors were giving an unsecured loan to the Jockey Club. To the best of my knowledge the interest was taxable as well. Hence the junk bond coupon.
Looking at it now, the fact they didn’t just borrow the Cheltenham money from a financial institution given the basement lending rates at the time, perhaps even as far back as 2013 they had stretched their line of “regular” credit as far as it would go.
Be interesting to know where the other 400 million is coming from.
Yes, the rate, just inside junk territory (although not formally assessed by any ratings agency so far as I know) , was probably about ballpark for what was on offer, neither generous nor stingy.
I wouldn’t take too much notice of what Hargreaves Lansdown says. With their charges, not exactly the investor’s best friend!
Titus, thanks for that. Is the key item the reference to that 2021 date regarding the debt?
4) Kempton v Sandown as NH racecourses: the heritage arguments re JCR have already been well made but there are further aspects to the ground/configuration. Kempton is a flat, well drained, good ground track that is key for NH trainers whose stables have plenty of ‘flat-bred’ horses (e.g. NJH, Alan King). Take out Kempton and they may be needing to travel further (e.g. to Donnie) to get suitable ground for those horses, thereby increasing operating costs. If the premier mid-winter races in England shift to Sandown then the premium will be on a proper jumps-bred staying horse with a liking for winter ground, so sourcing/buying strategies may need to change.
Given its propensity for decent winter going, Doncaster is an under-used track, so more racing there would be both a good idea and welcome. However it isn’t a JCR track, and though I’ve no idea how fixture and race juggling is organised it seems unlikely that JCR would permit high-profile races to be lost to the ‘opposition’. Regarding access: I reckon that while getting from the mid-west (Lambourn etc) to Doncaster may incur more mileage, timewise it wouldn’t be significantly greater than negotiating the M4 and M25 to Kempton. And for trainers north, east and west of say Watford, Donny would be preferable
Huntingdon is a flat, RH, well-drained track on the JCR roster. Why not consider beefing-up that handily situated course just off the A1? A ‘Christmas Festival’ featuring the Peterborough and King George Chases – nice
As for your fine idea that the transferring of premier winter races to Sandown would necessitate or encourage breeding for stamina, well a better reason to move lock, stock and barrel to Esher would be hard to find
Drone
You are talking absolute bollocks. The idea that it will,d barely take longer to get to donny than kempton from lambourne is insane. I drive to Newbury from virtually next to kempton and it’s an hour. Every time. Also m4 m25 is not the only or always the quickest route
Donny is a bit of a flat racing track that happens to host jump racing.its ok and I’ve been to a few top flat meetings there but it’s left handed again and that is certainly not where the kgv should go. I’m not at all sure what the reaction of many owners to that prospect is either.
Huntingdon? Are you mad? A terrific well run track but tell me how they are going to get 20000 in there?
Frankly the best choice if this happens (it won’t IMO) would be ascot for the kgv.
The Call For Sites proforma that JCR/Redrow will have filled in is on the web link and shows some of the key considerations for Spelthorne (& Runnymede) Councils: student homes, traveller sites, homes suitable for older people.
That’ll go down well locally. Pikeys, smelly students and coffin dodgers
They’ve got enough on their plate with Feltham on the doorstep
Pikeys, smelly students and coffin dodgers
The Trump school of diplomacy flourishes :)
Full marks for brevity, though.
4) Kempton v Sandown as NH racecourses: the heritage arguments re JCR have already been well made but there are further aspects to the ground/configuration. Kempton is a flat, well drained, good ground track that is key for NH trainers whose stables have plenty of ‘flat-bred’ horses (e.g. NJH, Alan King). Take out Kempton and they may be needing to travel further (e.g. to Donnie) to get suitable ground for those horses, thereby increasing operating costs. If the premier mid-winter races in England shift to Sandown then the premium will be on a proper jumps-bred staying horse with a liking for winter ground, so sourcing/buying strategies may need to change.
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Excellent posts Titus,
Personally speaking I don’t think the chase track at Sandown is anywhere near the test of stamina that people think. The siting of the fences means that horses never reach close to their top speed round there and that above all, in my experience, brings stamina into play. Whilst I agree the ground would add to stamina requirements the layout of the track actually offsets this. Interesting (though not conclusive, I admit) that One Man and Kicking King, both nearer the lower end of stamina for 3 milers, were the winners when the KG was rerouted.
The hurdle track however is the opposite and hurdle races at Sandown Vs Kempton would be unrecognisable. With the possible exception of Towcester, Sandown is the stiffest hurdle track in the country. The Christmas hurdle would look very different.
Sandown actually did extensive work to draining the hurdle track in the back straight this autumn, whilst generally welcome in terms of preventing abandonments (though not for myself, as I have a modestly successful stamina based system on going over timber at the Esher track) I did think it wasn’t massively promoted by Sandown.
perhaps they were quite literally laying the groundwork!Drone
You are talking absolute bollocks.Huntingdon? Are you mad?
I’m just madly kicking some bollocks around and venturing to think outsida the bollox really. As you’ve mentioned it’s odds-against Kempton closing so the balls are just pumped full of hot air anyway
You displayed a rather unwelcome reasonableness for a while when resurfacing on TRF Clivexxxx: welcome back the real you
Whilst I agree the ground would add to stamina requirements the layout of the track actually offsets this. Interesting (though not conclusive, I admit) that One Man and Kicking King, both nearer the lower end of stamina for 3 milers, were the winners when the KG was rerouted.
I concur that’s inconclusive because both those horses also won a KG at Kempton.
Apart from the Christmas meeting I lost interest in Kempton when it became all-weather, but that’s just a prejudice I have against that form of racing. It must be odds against the track closing, though, what with the Chief Executive of Spelthorne Borough Council having voiced his opposition to such a project both yesterday and before. Of course, I’m unsure what the rest of the Council are thinking.
Personally speaking I don’t think the chase track at Sandown is anywhere near the test of stamina that people think. The siting of the fences means that horses never reach close to their top speed round there and that above all, in my experience, brings stamina into play.
That’s an interesting theory, RR a thought that had never occurred to me. My first instinct would be that the frequent arrest of momentum a fence causes (unless the horse is unusually slick) would tend to demand a higher energy requirement (more stamina). Horses establishing a rhythm in a staying chase, especially from the front – Smad Place on his game would be a perfectly example – are, imo, at a huge advantage. Rhythm is king in staying chases and I suspect the reason is that rivals tire more quickly because of the stop/start momentum caused by workmanlike jumping.
One Man was a particularly good jumper and a fine rhythm horse. Kicking King, of course, went on to win the Gold Cup in the manner of a strong stayer.
Drone
You are talking absolute bollocks.Huntingdon? Are you mad?
I’m just madly kicking some bollocks around and venturing to think outsida the bollox really. As you’ve mentioned it’s odds-against Kempton closing so the balls are just pumped full of hot air anyway
You displayed a rather unwelcome reasonableness for a while when resurfacing on TRF Clivexxxx: welcome back the real you
drone.. Im back in the flow mate and will pitch in occasionally rather than get bogged down with the humourless guardian reading twats encountered elsewhere
Not one to naval gaze about forums but this and other threads are better quality.
I don’t think this misguided JCR pipe-dream will happen, for one local councillors will move heaven and earth to prevent the loss of such a large amount of green belt land, but the very proposal is indeed a shameful disgrace. The traitors who are the current JCR stewards should all resign. They should anyway if it is true they have mismanaged finances. Another enemy within is that dreadful old hack Alistair Down (he who castigated Red Marauder’s National).
The idea is catastrophic for Jumps racing in particular and racing in general. JCR is the direct descendant of RHT which was set up to save racecourses. Apart from its heritage, Kempton provides part of the variety of tests essential to Jumps racing, especially at Grade 1 level (e.g. the contrast in demands of the KG & Chelt GC). It hosts many fine Jumps cards that are not on Boxing Day. The most similar course is Huntingdon which is not a serious candidate for upgrade. Sandown is a dual-purpose track which because of such, the winter ground there and the local infrastructure is not a great choice for the extensive redevelopment mooted.
I am sceptical regarding the proposed reinvestment. £100m not £500m would be raised from the sale of Kempton. I expect a lot of already personally rich people would do well out of it. If JCR has gotten into debt why trust the architects of that impecuniosity to have the remotest say in the distribution of the £100m and where indeed will the other £400m come from? Furthermore, the stated aims of the reinvestment should be things JCR and the BHA are working towards anyway by creating funding via innovative thinking and exploiting new and existing business relationships, not by closing important core parts that should be preserved by that very investment.
I wonder what has been and is really going on here. I am a Jumps fan and somewhat regard the Flat as Mickey Mouse. However, it was a terrible decision to do away with with grass at Kempton for AW Flat which is surely Donald Duck. Flat racing at Kempton has inevitably lost its prestige and this has weakened the profile of the venue as a whole in some eyes. And because of this perception Jumps may well now suffer while a replacement AW track springs up at Newmarket – how cosy for JCR & co. Chelmsford and Lingfield must be pleased! Actually the powers that be should be looking to decentralise, move away from focussing on a small Suffolk town ill-equipped to attract and handle the sort of crowds that could be attracted to Kempton AW if it were to receive a fraction of the investment & marketing proposed for the replacement. BHA/JCR should be looking to evenly spread the wealth in racing throughout Britain in both codes especially Jumps where it’s hard times in the north. And if you think this is unrealistic then who could have predicted a few decades ago the balance of power in NH switching from Lambourn to the west country!
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