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…So we would vote for people that nobody knew what they stood for, Ben?
Or may be we should think about what we’d get instead of politicians…
Donald Trump.
Value Is Everythingtbh I may be in the minority here but… Although I may disagree with their beliefs / policies / ideology – I see politicians as people wanting to make a difference for the good of the country – whichever wing they’re coming from.
Value Is EverythingHi Ginge hope you’ve been keeping well mate!
I’ve thought about it loads of times and though I won’t claim to have the solution I just can’t help but think that having parties encourages those in power to pick a side rather than just doing what’s right. I think each issue should be seen on its own merits.
I know this is very vague lol but I really don’t see how someone being on a preconceived side of an argument can be be beneficial for anything.
Ginge they may start their politics degree with the best intentions, but they’ll surely find out soon along the way that the system is too far gone.
Also there’s an interesting morale argument, perhaps those who go into politics are somewhat greedy and power hungry and their intentions were never right in the first place.
Not saying all politicians think that way, but the nature of the job must be exciting for those with power-hungry brains.
Am all for politicians doing what’s “right” although what’s right is usually only an opinion. Yes, good point about each issue being voted on on its own merits. I agree, members voting against the whip should not be made such a big deal of – by their parties and just as importantly by the media. If media makes too much of an MP going against their party line then politicians are less likely to go against that party line.
Personally I don’t see it as “greed” as such, Ben. Politicians could usually earn more in other jobs they’re qualified for. Power hungry and ego can sometimes come in to things, but even so generally / vast majority of decisions are made and overall thought of most politicians – even the ones I don’t agree with – is for what they believe is the good of the country.
Value Is EverythingDo think politicians twisting things in order to try and help their own side have been found out.
eg Labour’s left continuously portraying tories as hating the working class is – if it ever was true – way out of date now. In this election Conservatives were seen as the party of aspiration, which is nothing to do with class. There is no class system anymore. Labour need to recognise – or at least make the public know – there’s nothing wrong with anyone trying to better themselves.
Value Is EverythingThe day before last weeks elections, the former shadow Home Secretary retweeted a tweet supporting the IRA. In fact labour under Corbyn was going to have the three of the four main positions of power (thornberry the exception) filled with committed IRA supporters who also by extension barely hide their hated of the English. But not as much as jews of course.
And people wonder why they weren’t elected…
Kier has a struggle to shake this off. the party is still infected with poison that should be in the Socialist Rapists Party but I disagree with Paul stating that its the true face of labour. As Pat McFadden rightly stated, Labour detoxified the disgusting bigoted retarded thickastwoplanks Corbyn but Corbyn and his freaks are a millions miles away from what labour has represented since its inception. Every past labour leader would have totally despised him
And all thats left is who claims the brand because one side cannot sit with the other and the party absolutely has to split. This shoddy government needs strong opposition and thats only going to come from the centre left. Its become urgent but frankly I cannot see it happening anytime soon and labour is just going slide further and further into irrelevance
Theres a lot of truth in that Cork
Frankly the hard left has always been terrified of actual power and given the 100% failure of extreme left states over the past 100 years, its hardly surprising
Blair won in 1997 because John Major never recovered from Black Friday and all Blair had to do was not cock up a winning opportunity.
Don’t agree entirely
And I would also claim that the vastly overrated John Smith would have struggled to beat Major. Smiths vision (such as it was after another bottle of malt) was dated and tired.
Blair inspired. And there’s a key factor that links him with Boris and perhaps thatcher. And Clinton and JFK too
they are natural optimists. Regardless of party lines they exude positivity.
people sense it and it cant be manufactured
I like Keir in many ways but I dont think he has this
The way this government convey message they support the working class is incredible they are backed by billionaires. somehow the working class feel the tories got there back madness it is. When you look at self employed not helped about 3 million people. Look out at cuts to police the courts the cuts to Councils over the last 11 years. A NHS that was in trouble before Covid. And somehow people in this country still think government so great. To top it off a old and young man in Hartlepool video on twitter saying how bad Labour are we lost a hospital in 2011 and Court in 2017 they were blaming Labour but the fact is the tories were the reason hospital and court closed but they got it in there head that it was Labour who did it. And the journalist was nodding agreement and not correct them. The media got a lot to answer for as well.
If Labour communicates in the same way as Darren, then no wonder voters are confused
The “media” blaming is nonsense
Tv and Radio generally treads a neutral line which leaves the press
Its all the fault of the press
As if voters are somehow prevented from buying the Guardian, Morning star and Mirror (and the independent previously)?
They simply choose not to. Thats it. All there is to it
And who would want to pay anything to have ***** like Owen Jones screeching?
“Frankly the hard left has always been terrified of actual power.”
Agree, Clive. I think a lot of people on the Left genuinely prefer being in opposition and shouting about the Tories. I am convinced some of them enjoy it. If they ever gained power, they would never want to do anything that compromised their ideological purity. Corbyn would have hated being PM, having to do deals and talk to people he does not like.
“Labour lost, blame the media”.
It is all they ever do. It is never their fault. And one defeated Labour councillor in Amber Valley tweeted “The voters have let us down”. He might as well have said “The people have spoken, the bastards”.
And then you have Lisa Nandy on the radio today, saying everything is OK in the Labour Party but not in the country. How many more defeats will it take for her to learn? She managed to decrease her own majority from 16,000 to just under 7,000 at the last election. If she keeps it up she will be out of a job in 2024.
Reason Labour lost Hartlepool more down to fact that last election that Brexit party split the vote. And once that party was removed this time then the torries going to win it
I.more blame newspaper In terms of media as mentioned earlier on 2 men talking in Hartlepool saying got no court and lost a hospital and blaming Labour for it when it was Government who closed those places. how can general public not do research on it
And yes in my original post here not impressed by Labour as well not really any party I trust to run this country we got a shocking Government and opposition
Agree again Cork
I also heard the old hard left John Tricketts on the radio saying that what was required was more “workers societies”. Visions of miners happily singing and marching away from the pit head to attend their evening poetry or ballet lessons.
****** idiot
A big chunk of labour lives in the past and this obsession with the “working class” means nothing to masses of voters.
And another section simply wants to scream “WACIST” at all and sundry, expressing horror at the sight of the Union Jack whilst lecturing a check out girl at Tescos about her contribution to slavery.
And as controversial as it will sound, the endless BLM all over the media has gone past the point when it grates. Lets not start about transphobia
Im not sure that many voters really love the tories at all but look at these alternatives?
Clueless
You’re right that without the Brexit Party / UKIP the Conservatives would’ve gone close last time around, Darren. Also helped this time around in that many struggle to change directly from Labour to Conservative. Easier from Labour to UKIP and then to Conservative.
I can’t find anything on the internet about “closing a Hartlepool hospital in 2011”, only an A and E… And if it had hit the town badly then there’s no way they’d have voted Tory. However, since then a study has shown the closure has not cost lives. I know it is easy to think of closing hospitals or wards or A and E’s as extremely bad for locals; but that’s far from always the case. Often they’re replaced by something more modern / better and / or something that does just as good a job for less money… Which in turn means more money for other good local projects.
Value Is Everything
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