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Richard not now but we were talking about the opposition to boris at the time
Corbyn’s two senior advisors Murray and milne both strongly praised North Korea (murray) and the Soviet union (mllne) milne is a vicious anti semite who routinely supported extreme Islamic terrorist groups and strongly backed the 9 11 attacks
All this is on the record
It’s totally different party now but these were the people who would be running the country
Gkaditeur I didn’t agree with sunak on that and as talented as he is j find he can have a Tin ear on these matters
Fair enough, Clive, but this is the mindset of the party and he could be their next leader.
Do we really want to live in a society where the poor are left to fend for themselves while the rich drown in Government largesse?
Anyone with an FT subscription should make sure they read Rory Stewart’s article about the current political situation, published within the last hour.
Brutal.
‘It would be better if we could one day see past the tired old quarrel between right and left. Too much politics is tribal and little better than football allegiance. It is OK when your team does it but to be condemned when the other team does.’
This. Can you imagine the squealing from the right wing media if Labour or whoever else got up to half the stuff the current government does? And there will be plenty of examples the other way too.
Fair point Clive, I don’t like Corbyn either for the record. His iteration of Labour is in part responsible for the mess we’re in now by not providing effective opposition when it was needed most. They seem to be heading in a better direction but still two years plus to go so we’ll see.
And the Left leaning media? Why this obsession with the “right wing media”?
Its not the fault of the mail and the sun that the Guardian and Mirror don’t sell and the independent failed. The market made its choice. Tough
the other problem labour had is that it was seen as representing a world where only the public sector mattered. Not everyone sees the Public sector as being lovely nurses hovering around food banks after a day cleaning bed pans I think we know of plenty in the public sector who are on tidy salaries and very generous pensions for what amounts to non jobs. A mate of mine was in a straightforward council accounting role and had over 9 weeks holiday. His Financial Director couldn’t actually use a spreadsheet and struggled to understand them
Its been noted of course that “long covid” is disproptionately affecting teachers, NHS workers and civil servants but not the self employed
The question is always raised about how many work in the public sector. The stock answer is “about a third”
Couldn’t comment myself
Also Richard my point is that the “thick poor voters” have moved beyond all that haven’t they?
they are increasingly not tribal and not seeing voting in terms of “my party until I die”
they are ahead and more sophisticated than most on forums and twitter it would seem?
Drivel?
Throughout my life at least 30% of the electorate at every election vote for a Party which will make them net worse off because they don’t earn enough to be able to afford private sector health and education for their children.
If only those who benefitted under the Tories voted Tory they’d never win a seat!
It’s the cleverest con job in history and it’s pretty woeful the Labour Party have seldom managed to expose it, centre-right media notwithstanding.
The Tories are very, VERY, good at winning elections – watch them knife Johnson if they decide he’s a loser.
Labour? They gave Corbyn a second chance!
Ditto Kinnock back in the day!
No second chances with the Tories – it’s win at all costs.
You’ve got to admire it, really.
In the same way you’ve got to admire Genghis Khan, that is.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"On the issue of Mao, Diane Abbott, prospective Home Secretary remember, said clearly on TV that “Mao did more good than harm”
Diane Abbott does not represent “the left”. That’s like saying Jacob Rees-Mogg represents “the right”.
If that is the case Glad’, nobody represents anything.
Abbott is typical of the Labour hard left of Corbyn, McDonnell, Burgon, Butler etc.
McDonnell who would’ve been Chancellor under a Corbyn Labour government – basically in charge of business and the economy – was / is a self proclaimed Marxit.
Value Is EverythingRees Mogg is on the right wing of the Conservative Party, but he’s nowhere near as right wing as the BNP / National Front / EDF etc… And if you asked Rees Mogg about those idiots he’d rightly condemn them.
Labour Left are further left than the Tory right are to the right.
Labour left often extol the supposed virtues of the Communist Party.
Value Is EverythingBit of a generalisation, GT.
There are many shades of left and many shades of right – you will find them in both parties if you drill down far enough.
And where’s the centre point you measure left or right from nowadays?
The country has been steadily moving to the right since 1979.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"In 1979 you had Thatcher for the Conservatives and Foot for Labour. Although Foot did have some more centre like Healy and Hattersley in his shadow cabinet; Foot himself (and others) was very much a non-electable neo-Communist similar to Corbyn and his leftist pals… And although Thatcher had those more in the centre like Kenneth Clark, Willie Whitelaw etc; Thatcher and others were more right wing than Johnson’s government.
So to say the centre has steadily been moving moved right since 1979 is not true.
Just the “Centre” doesn’t really have a party anymore. After the public punished the Liberals for getting into bed with the Tories, Liberals are now pretty much indistinguishable from most of Labour. Not that Liberals were ever properly “centre”, just used to be more centrist than Labour.
Trouble for the left is they now have so many options in Britain. Labour, Liberal, Green, SNP / Welsh Nationalists.
Where as apart from when UKIP was a force pre-Brexit, Tories are the only right of centre party people can vote for and believe they have a chance of winning the seat.
You ask where the centre is?
I’d say a smidgen to the right of Blair and / or a smidgen to the left of Kenneth Clark.
That’s where the centre line has always been. Both Clark and Blair can legitimately claim to be Centrist politicians.Value Is EverythingI hate to bring this up again, although I won’t lose any sleep over it.
Reading the ebb and flow of the discussion, is it any wonder that
Scotland haven’t voted a Tory party in since 1955 and threw labour
out on their ear 15 years ago. For all it’s flaws the Scots trust
the SNP way more than either of those parties
True, no wonder at all BigG.
Take nationalism out of the SNP, and it is Scotland’s very own Labour Party.
Therefore because the Scots feel more Scottish than British, they’d rather vote for the Scottish Labour Party, even if some are not particularly “nationalist”. ie Of course Scots are going to trust a Scottish party more than they are going to trust a “British” party.And although am all for devolution; it has (with a few exceptions) enabled the SNP to take credit for anything good that’s happened in Scotland… And yet blame the English – sorry “Westminster” – for anything bad.
Value Is EverythingThat’s nothing more than a low blow Ginge, the Scot’s don’t hate or blame
“the English”, even though you love to spout this every time I talk about
a party. They voted SNP because they never trusted the Conservative party
and the labour party, which had been trusted, became a joke. So the Scot’s
rightly said, on your bike mate, whether your Scottish or English.I’ve also pointed out to you countlessssssss times, that not all SNP
voters wan’t or would vote for Independence, if they did it would
be a landslide, which it isn’t. Yes Sturgeon and the party would
like Independance, but it’s got bugger all to do with them, it’s
down to the people.For a very “British” guy, you have a very low opinion of the Scots.
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