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With proportional representation everyone gets what nobody wants, Glad’.
Nobody votes for a coalition.
And small parties that very few have voted for get too much power.
Imagine a Conservative party kept in power by a few BNP MPs.
What would be the BNP’s price for keeping Conservatives in power? Bad enough the DUP.
…And the other way, a Labour Party kept in power by Communists.First Past The Post has resulted in the UK having far less of a problem with both far left and (even more importantly) far right than the vast majority of comparable countries. Democracy being the winner.
Value Is EverythingIf you don’t think UKIP and the BNP have dragged this current incarnation of the Conservatives to the right, you’ve not been paying attention!
Yes, UKIP has had some influence on the Conservative Party, but UKIP is not far right, Glad.
BNP is far right and it has no bearing on the Conservative Party.
…But as you’re from the left I don’t expect you to believe it.
Value Is EverythingThe MP for Bury South tweeted on 18th January last year that the Labour Party is a “bunch of *****”.
I am sure his new colleagues are delighted to have him on board.
Seems the Bury South MP has seen Yvette Cooper coming back and Corbyn going and believes that on its own has transformed the Labour Party, CAS.
True it has helped, but nowhere near enough.
Value Is Everything‘First Past The Post has resulted in the UK having far less of a problem with both far left and (even more importantly) far right than the vast majority of comparable countries. Democracy being the winner.’
Conservatives 43% of votes, 56% of seats. SNP 1.2 million votes, 48 seats. Lib Dem 3.6 million votes (three times SNP), 11 seats. The Greens get 1 seat for over 800k votes.
If that’s democracy, I’m a banana.
“Democracy being the winner”, as in no Stalin, no Hitler, no Putin, no Janos Ader (Hungary). There’s also strong parties of the far right in opposition, eg Austria’s “Freedom Party” and many more. we don’t get extreme right wing parties in our Parliament, not even in opposition. First Past The Post isn’t ideal but there is no ideal. At least with FPTP there is no chance of democracy being overturned here.
Value Is EverythingWakeford called Owen Paterson a **** recently. It does unfortunately seem to be a favourite word of his but he has at least realised when it’s more appropriate to use it.
‘At least with FPTP there is no chance of democracy being overturned here.’
You can’t overturn something that doesn’t exist in the first place…
Of course no system is perfect but there are few worse than FPTP. Are there lots of current examples of places with PR in its various forms being overrun by Stalin, Hitler etc?
I’d be fine with a few far right / left fanatics in Parliament. They could sit in the corner shouting amongst themselves and be safely ignored by the rest of us and would no longer be able to claim they aren’t represented.
So there are now claims of bullying and threats of funding cuts to Conservative MP’s if they don’t toe the party line. The lady MP who voted against the party about VAT on energy had the whip taken from her which confirms, imo that this is true. Threats to cut funding are not just a threat to MP’s but a treat to their constituents also. This government is rotten to the core. A result I think of having years of power with no effective opposition when Corbyn was Labour Party leader. For what it’s worth I think this could happen to any party if allowed to run the country unchallenged for a long time. What a sorry state of affairs.
Never a good idea for any of them to be in power beyond two terms tbh.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"At a guess 10 million people would vote for this lot tomorrow. One does wonder just what it would take for some people to start looking at taking their vote elsewhere.
Moehat Quote: “The lady MP who voted against the party about VAT on energy had the whip taken from her which confirms, imo that this is true. Threats to cut funding are not just a threat to MP’s but a threat to their constituents also. This government is rotten to the core”. End Quote.
Hmmmmmm, you’re getting your news from a left wing outfit, Moehat.
Conservative MP Anne Marie Morris lost the whip for voting for a motion where the wording actually gave predominately opposition MPs the power to force business of the House of Commons to legislate on the tax cut… When in fact Commons rules say only the Government can control the business of the House of Commons, NOT backbench opposition MPs.Labour knew their small print would result in any Conservative MP voting for the bill having the whip taken away from them. Which is a shame because without this small print MANY Conservative MPs could and would have voted for that motion with no threat of losing the whip. ie If “confirm”ing anything it’s that Labour is “rotten to the core”. Getting votes to their own bill being less important than trying to portray to the public that only Labour care. Seems to me it did the exact opposite, using those affected by VAT on energy as a political football.
Similar motion was tried when May was PM. Remoaners trying to take control away from the government in a failed attempt to thwart Brexit.
Value Is EverythingOne of the promises of the leave campaign was that if we left the EU we would be able to reduce energy bills by removing VAT. So why is the government opposed to doing so at a time when energy price rises are going to financially cripple some households?
Michael Gove, 31/5/2016: “When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax.”
Boris Johnson, 31/5/2016, 5/6/2016, 3/10/2019: “When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax.”, “Such as on cutting VAT on the cost of fuel for elderly people, which is a huge burden”, “Yes. Not only will we be able to reduce VAT in the UK, but we will be able to do it in Northern Ireland as well.”
Robert Halfon, 3/10/2019,12/11/2020, 23/09/2021: “Once we do the deal and leave the EU, we will gain control of our tax rates and be able to reduce VAT and energy bills for our hard-working constituents?”, “During the Brexit campaign, my right hon. Friend wrote an article in The Sun stating that we would be able to reduce VAT on energy bills, saving the taxpayer a considerable amount of money per year. Can he set out the progress we are making on that and confirm that we will be able to cut VAT on energy bills, therefore cutting the cost of living for hard-pressed families across the country?”, “to reduce VAT on energy bills, as was pledged by those who supported Brexit in the EU referendum.”
Andrea Leadsom, 9/6/2016: “We are unable to get rid of VAT on fuel bills because the EU prevents us from doing so. Despite fuel poverty”
Andrew Lewer, 4/1/2022: “VAT on energy bills should be removed to combat rising costs nationwide.”
Priti Patel, 14/6/2016: “We have said that we would spend British taxpayers’ money on a range of priorities including the NHS and in particularly as well on [cutting] VAT on fuel. So those are the two areas that we have said we will spend that money on.”
Steve Baker, 2/1/2022: “the removal of VAT on domestic energy… would be a step in the right direction”
David Jones, 2/1/2022: “the removal of VAT on domestic energy… would be a step in the rightClimate Change has now effectively got the Government in an arm lock.
Hope the government do something. Time yet to bring in legislation that would help those facing the worst of energy price rises. Suspect they’re also considering doing something to VAT and / or other ways too.
Value Is EverythingI don’t just listen to lefties. I left the Labour Party because of the extreme left and have only just rejoined. It was Gisela Stuart that told me they would reduce VAT on fuel bills, that’s why I’m so angry that it was a lie. From what I can see Labour were I just trying to enable a vote to take place on fuel bills. Even if Labour can prise back control of the commons timetable the Conservatives have such a huge majority that it’s difficult for them to achieve anything anyway. But I am grateful to be given more information. I don’t understand parliamentary procedure at all. I think it needs dragging into the modern age to be honest.
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