Is Horse Racing a "White" pastime? (particularly jumps racing)

[TheBluesBrother]

Racial diversity is a serious problem, I lay awake at night wondering how many white folks work in Indian call centres.

[Gingertipster]

I trained many kids(boxing) from all differing backgrounds/creeds, loved them all, but it does slightly p+ss me off with all this lets get more ethnics into this that and the other. If they are truly interested in the sport/pastime they will turn up and be welcomed

Do you really think judging Racing by what happens in a Boxing enviroment gives a similar insight, nwalton? Boxing has an extremely long tradition of black Champions, going back generations. They’re going to feel welcome in a Boxing gym because the sport is full of role models.

There is none of that tradition in British Racing. How do you explain the fact city bookmakers are full of ethnic minorities interested in Racing – particularly black and asian – and yet they do not go racing? Go to Hong Kong or Singapore and you’ll see a love for going racing and gambling… And yet we do not see many black or far east faces either at the races, in media, training or riding. That does not mean there is institutional racism in our sport. However, to me it does suggest if we try to make ethnic minorities feel welcome they just might come in larger numbers.

Value Is Everything

[stevecaution]

Ginger, you may know your horses but you know very little else.

I doubt your brain is capable of grasping the concept of inverted racism anyway.

As far as being racist, I have documented evidence on other forums showing where I support ethnic minorities and homosexuals. I have largely been met with people like you though, incapable of joined up thinking. When you know little about any subject, you should stay out of it.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

[stevecaution]

When I have the time I will post proof.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

[Nathan Hughes]

if we try to make ethnic minorities feel welcome they just might come in larger numbers.

I thought everyone was welcome and everyone was equal

What do you suggest to make ethnic minorities even more welcome.?

Free admission to non whites.?
A guard of honour on entrance to course.?
A jump the long queue ticket to the p!sser, bar, bookie.?
A big smile and a “oh hello, how are you, I don’t know you but it’s a privilege to be able to speak you, you are most welcome to the racing world, please tell all your friends how welcome you are”.?

I’d feel less welcome for having to be made more welcome

Charles Darwin to conquer the World

[stevecaution]

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?270313-Wick-Gala-in-Race-Row/page3

Check it out and come back with your apologies.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

[Nathan Hughes]

I wouldn’t take any notice Steve.
Ginger has said on here many times that he’s not here to make friends, hardly sounds the welcoming type.
He likes to preach but doesn’t exactly practise what he preaches.

Charles Darwin to conquer the World

[greektown]

I suppose the idea that we should make ethnic communities feel more welcome can only be predicated on the idea that those people are not welcome now. I see no evidence of that. I think you are seeing a problem where none exists. “Ethnic” ( trying to discuss these types of issues and nomenclature is walking on thin ice unfortunately ) people are no less welcome than anyone else in racing. There have been Asians in racing for a long time now. People of West Indian ancestry also ( Compton Rodrigues is one who had success) have entered the job. Very few though , in my experience.
There is a risk of ” Tokenism ” here & there are few more offensive things. I appreciate that that is not what you advocate but that is what it could lead to.
It must be accepted that fewer people are now interested in Racing as an entertainment never mind as a career. hence the “need” for music shows at racecourses. Racing is secondary to many of the ticket buyers.
Without being pompous , Racing , like Nursing and the Church , is a vocation to a large extent. There are those , the majority perhaps, who come into it in the hopes of becoming jockeys & the wealth & fame which follows , fewer come into racing with the idea of working with racehorses. The demands on stable staff are much greater than in “normal” occupations ; this alone is enough to discourage some of the few who do consider entry. Times have changed – the “runt ” of the litter who was often put into racing because of their size ( I have seen many of these ) are now able to find better paid , less demanding in terms of time , safer , forms of work. This has nothing to do with ethnicity, it is just that racing , in many ways , is an anachronism. I don’t know how that will change. Trying to attract people because of any ” otherness” they present will not change any of this.

[nwalton]

Btw Gt where did I say I was talking about black lads/girls? I was pointing out that people like myself get cheesed off with people telling us we need to be more diverse. I don’t put ads in people asking for more ethics to come to the gym.we just ask for people who want to get fit/box whatever their sex creed. All welcomed

[Gingertipster]

I thought everyone was welcome and everyone was equal.

What do you suggest to make ethnic minorities even more welcome.?

Free admission to non whites.?
A guard of honour on entrance to course.?
A jump the long queue ticket to the p!sser, bar, bookie.?
A big smile and a “oh hello, how are you, I don’t know you but it’s a privilege to be able to speak you, you are most welcome to the racing world, please tell all your friends how welcome you are”.?

I’d feel less welcome for having to be made more welcome

No.

I am no expert in this field, Nathan. Have you read Sulekha Varma’s post on the first page of this thread? Seems to me a working group looking in to how to go about attracting a diversity of peoples to Racing – is a good idea. But if you know better then fine.

Personally, am very much against so called “positive discrimination”. I’d just be in favour of ALL those with skills necessary for the job to apply if they wish to. Am sure most ethnic minority job seekers will not want a job in racing; but at least some might at least consider one if realising it’s worthwhile and they have (or will have) the skills. Is it not best for Racing if we get the best person for each job? If (by and large) the only people wanting certain jobs are upper or middle class men, then it’s obvious the choice/employee pool is limited. ie If the number of job applicants is greater and coming from as wide range of people possible – then there’s a better chance of getting the best person for that job (it’s a percentage thing LOL). It is up to the Working Group to find ways of encouraging ethnic minorities to apply. May be there is nothing Racing can do, I don’t know ; just like them to look in to it. Is that wrong?

Yes, everyone is equal and everyone is welcome; but some might not feel welcome… So – unless you know for sure there is nothing that can be done – why not look in to if there is something that can be done (without positive discrimination) to make them feel welcome? ie Encourage ethnic minorities who are already interested in racing to go racing… eg Those I’ve already mentioned from betting shops etc. Has there been any recent studies asking their opinions about going racing? I don’t know. May be the working group would have more ideas on how to encourage ethnic minorities to go racing. Find out how many are discouraged by a feeling of being unwelcome and how much of that is based on misunderstandings or something else that could be easily changed in order to encourage them to go racing.

Why is it not best for Racing to encourage as many racegoers as possible?
If nothing can be done then so be it, at least we will know.

Value Is Everything

[Gingertipster]

Btw Gt where did I say I was talking about black lads/girls? I was pointing out that people like myself get cheesed off with people telling us we need to be more diverse. I don’t put ads in people asking for more ethics to come to the gym.we just ask for people who want to get fit/box whatever their sex creed. All welcomed

Yes, am sure you are fed up with the diversity question, nwalton. I probably would be in your boxing shoes. Just saying the two sports are miles apart in attracting ethnic minorities to the sport. So the position Racing face is imo a very different one.

Value Is Everything

[stevecaution]

It is up to the Working Group to find ways of encouraging ethnic minorities to apply.

Nonsense.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

[Gingertipster]

You know best, Steve… again.

I’d like to know why you think you know better than these people who’ve been specifically set up to look in to diversity in horse racing?

Josh Apiafi, Rewards4Racing Founder and Director
Catherine Beloff, BHA Director of Legal and Governance
Linda Bowles, The Jockey Club Group People Director
Guy Disney, The Royal Foundation Project Manager
Susannah Gill, Arena Racing Company Director of External Affairs
Debbie Grey, National Association of Stable Staff Office Manager
Francesca Leyland, Regulus Partners Gambling and Sports Advisor
Victoria Morgan, Newington Communications Political Consultant
Lee Mottershead, Racing Post Journalist
Rishi Persad, ITV Presenter
Patricia Pugh, Racehorse Owners Association Board Member and Packard Curator, Palace House, Newmarket
Harriet Rochester, Rochester PR Founder
Nick Rust, BHA Chief Executive
Tanya Stevenson, Freelance Sports Journalist
Sulekha Varma, Hamilton Park Racecourse Racing Manager and Clerk of the Course
Laura Whyte, BHA Board Member

How do you know for certain they’ll come up with nothing?

Value Is Everything

[clivexx]

I agree with drone

It doesn’t matters anymore than encouraging eskimos to form reggae bands or Pygmys to become basketball players

[ham]

Yeah i agree with drone/clive

If theres actual evidence of a sexual orientation or race being discriminated against “collectively” not individual cases (individual cases are present in every sport/walk of life, there a different thing to whats being spoken about here), then you have to take the view that the people being referred to just arent interested, whats wrong with that? If they want to be, fantastic, if they dont, who cares?

This thread seems to be somewhat tainted now so ive tried to word my point correctly sos not to have one line quoted out of it and turned against my point lol,

The Whole thing Should be deleted.

[wit]

Have read all the above, plus the 60 pages of the Brookes University report – Women’s representation and diversity in the horseracing industry – to which Lekha linked.

Conspicuous by its absence from all of it is any explanation or justification of the fundament of this topic – what exactly is “underrepresentation “ ?

Is it the notion that if (2011 UK census) the ethnic make-up of the UK is: white 87.2%; black/African/Caribbean/black British 3%; Asian/Asian British: Indian 2.3%, Asian/Asian British: Pakistani 1.9%, mixed 2%, other 3.7%, with a rough division of 50/50 between male and female, then there “must” be no less and no more than:

43.6% of each of jockeys, trainers, grooms, owners, sponsors, vets, BHA, racecourse patrons, bookmakers, betting public as white males;

43.6% as white females;

1.5% as black/African/Caribbean/black British males;

1.5% as black/African/Caribbean/black British females;

1.15% as Indian males;

1.15% as Indian females; etc ?

If so, why ?

What happens if people want to behave in different ways and pursue different goals in life ? What if some people are better at certain things than others?

Must nonetheless they be forced to fulfill the mandated quotas?

The whole concept seems an inversion of the Martin Luther King Jr quote about judging people by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin – now saying “character/ability is not the determinant:- racing must be organized according to racial and sexual quotas”?

Indeed it seems the most fundamental kind of the racism / sexism it purports to decry, as well as being dictatorial and a denial of human liberty and of the human diversity it purports to promote? “People are not allowed to be different: each must be a microcosm of 7.6 billion others” ?

Or can its proponents outline a different fundament for their underrepresentation/ diversity project ?

[greektown]

I started as apprentice in 1963. At that time there were very few women in racing. There was a degree of resentment of women I believe but , over the years women decided for themselves that racing is where they wanted to work and that is what they did. The situation resolved itself over time. Women now form about 48% of people in the job.
Diversity is not , in my opinion, a necessary component of racing. If people of different backgrounds in any way wish to have a crack at it , good luck to them. My view is that diversity in racing will , like water , find its own level.

[Author]

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