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This kind of "cheating" (though I’m not sure I agree with that description) has also been used in other sports. I know of one firm of in-running punters who would have representatives at major golf and tennis tournaments, even the Australian Open. Tiger Woods has sunk a birdie putt but it’s several feet from the hole on Skysports.
Whatever you bet on there is usually someone who knows more than you, be it the trainer, jockey, football team manager who knows his star player is injured, the guy who has simply carried out more detailed research than you or the bloke standing by the open ditch shouting "lay" into his mobile as the jolly, 25 lengths clear, hits the deck.
"Mugging" people in running or laying dead horses isn’t the nicest way to make a living but people do it and will continue to do so whilst their fellow punters bet in running with a time delay.
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A lot is written on this subject by those that don’t bet IR, so therefore a decent percentage of it is wide of the mark.<br>There are plenty out there making a consistent profit betting from the delayed pictures. It can be done believe me.<br>As long as IR players betting from RUK or ATR pictures are aware of the delay, they can have no complaints. If they aren’t aware of the delay, they really only have themselves to blame.
A lot is written on this subject by those that don’t bet IR, so therefore a decent percentage of it is wide of the mark. <br>There are plenty out there making a consistent profit betting from the delayed pictures. It can be done believe me. <br>As long as IR players betting from RUK or ATR pictures are aware of the delay, they can have no complaints. If they aren’t aware of the delay, they really only have themselves to blame.
<br>"Same old Chompy, always cheating…"
Mike
Depends how you are using in-running. Like Wallace points out if you are merely using it to blance trades done pre-race then, so long as you are getting your targetted margins, all is well.
As Chompy and BD correctly point out, anyone losing significant sums at the hands of in-running sharks have only themselves to blame.
Quote: from Glenn on 4:03 pm on Mar. 19, 2007[br]Not fully up to speed on this but the food chain goes something like this:
The track<br>Racetech (on course)<br>Terrestrial…fraction of a second behind<br>Raw feed of Racetech (allegedly)…fractions of a second behind<br>(ATR extra)…1 or 2 secs behind<br>SIS….1 or 2 secs behind<br>RUK on sky…3 or 4 secs behind<br>ATR on sky…3 or 4 seconds behind<br>Sky Sports…3 or 4 seconds behind (was less than 2 secs and faster than SIS)<br>RUK on cable…7 or 8 secs behind! (was same as sky)<br>ATR on cable…7 or 8 seconds behind (was same as sky)<br>Internet radio…lord knows
There has been a notable degradation of service in the last 2-3 years. RUK have extended the delay no less than three times for cable customers (only once, when encripting the pictures when going subscription was there a reasonable excuse), ATR extra has disappeared and Sky Sports no longer is on a par with SIS.
The whole thing has become a complete racket. For some of the personnel that work for these broadcasters their regular salary is now regarded as pin money.
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An accurate assessment from Glenn although some of his timings are a little bit out. Sky Sports, ATR and ATR Xtra now all have the same delay, isn’t that a coincidence when we’ve always been told the delay depends on the transponder, you would expect some difference between the 3 on that basis.
A football match that was shown simultaneously on SS1 and SS2 last week had a 2 second difference in the first half but no difference in the second half, how did they manage that? I think there’s little doubt they impose what delay they want.
I don’t go along with the view that "mugs" have only themselves to blame for being mugged by the sharks when there’s a strong possibility corruption is involved.
Both Betfair and the Racing Post should be doing more to inform people what delays they are dealing with when betting in running by publicising the actual delays similar to what Glenn has done although more accurate. <br> <br>
Would this qualify as ‘insider trading’? What are the definitions of ‘insider trading’?
The ATR extra delay in the list refers to what it was. As you say it’s now the same as ATR, so to all intents and purposes no longer exists, hence my referal to it in the past tense.
There was a nice illustration of the time delays at Limerick racecouse on Sunday. At the main info point in the Tote hall there were three screens showing the home meeting – the racecourse feed, SIS and ATR.<br>The racecourse feed was at leat three seconds ahead of SIS which was in turn 2 seconds ahead of ATR (illustrated nicely by the on-screen clocks).<br>Most punters seemed to be happy watching the ATR feed though as it was on the biggest screen!
Quote: from colinf on 2:53 pm on Mar. 20, 2007[br]<br>Most punters seemed to be happy watching the ATR feed though as it was on the biggest screen!
Lowest common denominator?
I like that one from Cormack:<br>Would this qualify as ‘insider trading’? What are the definitions of ‘insider trading’
The way the “Stock market“define “Insider trading“ i would say a definate yes which would then be “illegal“, has its supported by the promoters they would have a problem!!
I must admit i would enjoy trading “live“ during a race,however,its not viable, the only sport i bet live is tennis and my trades are always when they are taking a seat at the end of a game!!
I know one firm of three people who do the in-running betting full time. Two guys are on-course watching live and on Racetech, with one at home on broadband plugged into Betfair. They put 5k in to lay the fav over jumps in-running and take everything if it falls (Well Chief was a bonanza) then try and call the winner before the line watching live on the course. They tell me they won 100k last year, I have no way of knowing if this is true, but the head honcho is always off on foreign holidays and buying cars, with no other visible means of support. It´s not as easy as it sounds, as one bad call can wipe out weeks of work, as you are betting long odds-on, and I don´t begrudge them thier winnings- surely everyone with a brain knows the in-running delay by now.
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