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That it is construed differently nowadays is a sign of the times we live in, maybe we should also allow a little tolerance for those from a different era?
"Nowadays"?
You mean for the last 25+ years?
The guy’s had at least a quarter of a century to realise it’s racially offensive, but is still using it.
That’s a choice.
Steve
What is so great about the word n!gger that people get so upset at the thought of not being able to use it?
PS Not being facetious, I’d really like to know.
(Edited by Seven Towers at 8:49 am on June 21, 2007)
its not the using of the word that bothers me, i never really do, i just dont see how it is offensive if a white person says it in a non-derogatory sense and yet it is accepted as normal when makes up every third word in a load of rap artists vocabulary. thats more racist than the word itself.
Wrong, darknight. It’s as racist as can be.
Imagine you lived as one of a small minority of whites in a dominant black society and a phrase you heard used, obviously pejorative, was "the honky in the woodpile". Do you think it would have been used benignly? "White person in the wood-pile" somehow just doesn’t cut it, does it?
benbdb, African Americans use the term, to neutralise the blind hatred it expresses; like we turned around the term, Desert Rats, for example.
However, since  just recently in Georgia,  they put away a 14-year old African American boy for pushing – yes, pushing –  a school monitor in the school corridor (because he urgently needed insulin and he/she was blocking his path) for 7 years, while, in the same place  a white kid who burned down his family home got community service, they have a long way to go to turn round the mindless hatred that word is replete with.
A lawyer got the boy out of prison, but the Attorney General told him he didn’t have the authority to do so, so sent him back.
There isn’t a living soul on this earth who isn’t a racist, deep, deep down, including Africans and Asians. We all have a reflexive reptilian nature, deep down, but we don’t have to accept it as our true nature – but otherwise reasonable people never come more close to doing so than when they fail to recognise the contempt for another human being that word conveys, as much in the heart of the person who utters it casually, as in a school child who might use it deliberately as a taunt.
Did you know that in the North of the US, as well as the South, they had until fairly recently in the last century, "sundown" towns, where African Americans had to leave the town before sundown, maybe with a young family, and find a disused railway carriage or some other kind of shelter for the night?
Sure, I’m talking about the US here, but I remember the race riots in London, where West Indians were set upon by gangs (and I think burnt out of their houses), while the police looked he other way; until one day the big black lads from Kilburn decided it was time to step in to help their brothers, and teach us white runts a lesson. It soon stopped.
Even after WWII, the US Senate dragged their feet about getting a grip of lynchings; while during the war, an African American soldier was ordered by a senior white NCO to give up his seat on a train to a German prisoner.
For what those people have suffered and continue to suffer, we should worship the ground they walk on. Arthur Ashe, who, you may remember, contracted Aids through a blood transfusion, said that it didn’t compare with the suffering he’d endured just for being black.
(Edited by Grimes at 11:55 am on June 21, 2007)
<br>(Edited by Grimes at 11:58 am on June 21, 2007)
<br>(Edited by Grimes at 12:01 pm on June 21, 2007)<br>
(Edited by Grimes at 12:39 pm on June 21, 2007)
Though there are many forumites who will no doubt be able to provide more detailed etymology, my dictionary of slang states that the word originated in the 15-16th century and refers to a black african slave. The same dictionary also then has several pages of expressions and phrases using the word, all of them starting from the position that a black african is synonymous with danger, idleness, degeneracy or similar undesirable qualities. The phrase that this gentleman used is therefore derogatory.
Since most words existed before we were born, we are not using them for the first time and they build up associated meanings over time that often depend on context. When a black rapper uses the word it has a different context and connotation to when a white person uses it. This may not seem logical or fair but it is a reality. We all accept unwritten rules of behaviour all the time, we adopt our language to the situation we are in every day of our lives, so this is really no different. Use the word by all means, but be aware of what the word might mean to different people and don’t be surprised at the reaction. I often find that people who bleat most about political correctness actually want to have their cake and eat it – they want the freedom to say whatever they want (which they have) but they don’t want to deal with the consequences (that other people may be offended).
In this gentleman’s defence, his use of the word was not as foolish as Ron Atkinson or that Big Brother contestant who used it to describe a specific individual. Therefore, a reprimand or apology would probably be okay.
Finally, I should say that broadcasters are paid to use words in public. If they are unable to choose their words more judiciously and unable to speak without accidentally offending large sections of their audience then it is inevitable that they will struggle to find employment. (This theory does break down a little when you consider the continued employment of Derek Thompson and Matt Chapman but I’m sticking to it)
Quote: from seabird on 8:13 am on June 21, 2007[br]
I was told that Racing UK received the huge amount of FOUR complaints over that verbal aberration.
Colin<br>
I’m annoyed I missed it.<br>They don’t actually encourage communication do they though seabird. I mean does anyone actually know any phone number or email address for feedback?
Talking of that, does anyone know SKY’s email address or phone number for complaints, I’ve got one regarding Matt Chapman on the Winning Post and complaining to ATR would be a waste of time.
well thank you for the extreme example though it completely misses the point. I was pointing out the hypocracy of every1 crying racist at the use of the word n1gger when used by non-african americans but not the other way round REGARDLESS of context. This is discrimination on grounds of race… racism.
I would point out i am not trying to advocate his use of the word, but that political correctness completely misses the point as often as not, i mean a load of schools in Birmingham were banned from singing baa baa black sheep incase anyone was offended.
This article on the use of the word niggardly gives some idea the political correctness machine in overdrive.
Words do not exist in a vacuum. They can change their emphasis and even meaning in different situations. You may not think its fair that some people are offended by the use of the word, you may not think its fair that when a white person uses that word it is seen in a different context, but it is, that is the reality. So you then have to decide whether you wish to continue using it. Everyone does this everyday so I really don’t see the problem. I don’t swear in front of my grandmother for example, because I happen to know that she doesn’t like it. Common politeness. But as I said, a simple apology, like we all do when we accidentally cause offence to someone, should be all that is required. It doesn’t sound like this gentleman set out to offend.
We are all answerable for our own actions and our own words. I know that if I use the word in public, it is likely to cause offence and so I have to weigh up whether it is necessary to do so. I can’t think of many situations when it would be or when an alternative word wouldn’t do just as well. So why offend people needlessly? No, it isn’t the end of the world to be offended, but equally it is simple politeness not to go out of your way to offend someone. Unless you have Tourette’s syndrome, this is a judgement you make many dozens of times a day.
I would agree with Dave. That is true political correctness, since the word niggardly has an entirely seperate derivation and it is highly unlikely that an ordinary African American would find that offensive. This is certainly one example where, if someone stated they were offended by the word, you could ask why and explain that they are simply incorrect.
i do agree with most of what your saying and the bits i don’t are mainly justmy own slightly idealistic views so ill agree to disagree.
Fair enough – I would like to think that eventually there will come a time when some of the scars of history have healed that some of these words will lose their sting.
Hello,
An offshoot to this extremely interesting, and up to now, well behaved debate, is whether Racing as a whole attracts the Black communities interest.
I am not requesting a Ethnic Origin Poll, nor saying what is right or wrong, but on my extensive visits to Racecourses over many years, Black, meaning African/Carribean origin, appear very thin on the ground.
There are very few Black jockeys, trainers, stewards etc. even allowing for the minority status.
However, City centre bookies have an appropriate level of custom depending on the area. Possibly that is just solely gambling.
Many would say the Racing authorities just about tolerate the working classes interest in Racing, but I don’t think they make any effort whatsoever to engage with Minority Groups…Do they have to??
One could say we are debating a statement made by a presenter that could possibly offend very few viewers directly as there is practically no ethnic minority interest in the Sport of Kings ??
regards,
doyley
I’m not in favour of positive discrimination or anything like it but there is nothing wrong in trying to market the sport to a wider audience.
All he has to say is that he didn’t say ni**er’ what he said was niggah .. rap artist 50cent says it all the time and he’s just your average african american.
Haven’t noticed any hysterical reaction on here, just calm debate on both sides.
I suspect it is likely that a black viewer would have found the phrase racist and offensive since the word itself is a derogatory one as is the phrase that contains it.
I don’t know that, of course, but it seems a reasonable assumption to make, which is why I don’t use the word myself. I may be wrong and I stand to be corrected by others better informed than myself.
I also strongly suspect that the man who used it had absolutely no intention of offending anyone.
All of this is just my opinion of course.
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