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How to escape mug punter land?

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  • #4115
    Mug Punter
    Member
    • Total Posts 27

    For those of you that are profitable long term. How did you do it? What should I be reading/doing to escape being a long term loser?

    #96426
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Discipline is key IMO. I’m no pro punter by a long. long way but I do make a profit generally, this flat season has been fantastic for me so far, long may it continue.

    I agree with EC its very difficult to tell somebody how to make a profit, everyone has different ways of doing things because everyone is different. It IS possible to make a profit but for me if I wasn’t disciplined in the type of bets I have I wouldn’t make a profit I’d lose a load.

    A couple of tips I would give anyone are :

    1) Completely disregard comments from owners, trainers, jockeys.

    2) Completely ignore tipsters / so called experts.

    3) stay away from multiple bets.

    4) Never ever chase losses.

    5) Don’t bet until everything is right in whatever way you choose your bets.

    Be your own man and do things your way, trust your own knowledge.

    <br>I don’t keep strict records as such I know most do but I keep a running total of how much I’m up / down.

    My advice unless you’ve been into racing for at least ten years don’t even bother trying to make a profit because it takes a long, long time to learn.

    (Edited by The Market Man at 5:45 pm on Aug. 16, 2006)

    #96429
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1208

    Im also a million miles away from being a pro but I dont have to keep topping up my account either so I suppose Ill give you a little advice about how not to be a massive loser.

    Keep records…its amazing how one only remembers  the bets that paid.  This can be very sobering.

    Its about the odds..  Backing overpriced horses  pays in the long term.

    Dont bet on what you dont know.  Youll see few people on this forum who really really do study and apply ratings  to horses and races every day and are real speed gurus.  There opinion is likely to be an awful lot better then the opinion of someone like myself picking up the racing post that moring.  I stick to bigger races where I am much more familar with the animals and the connections.

    Find out what your doing right.  You might have noticed that you can get the winners of all the major staying races every year yet simultaneously have no success with anything running below 10 furlongs.

    SHL

    #96430
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    All pretty reasonable advice so far .. !

    Its not too difficult to stop making a loss, imo .. but much harder to start making a meaningful profit.

    I would read the book ‘The Tau of Poker’ if I was starting out again, only I would have read it before I started studying horses.

    Good luck

    #96432
    InvisibleLayer
    Member
    • Total Posts 101

    Hi there, winning is an attitude!

    It’s about not being denied.  Winners do what losers refuse to do.  A loser refuses to keep records.  A loser refuses to do original research or in fact read the research of others, never mind validate it.  A loser doesn’t read books on the subject of horse racing.  A loser doesn’t seek out a winner for advice.  A loser views a losing day at the track as money irretrievably lost.  A winner views money left at the track as an interest-bearing loan that he’ll be back to collect.<br>  Losing is also an attitude.  A loser wants something for nothing.  He wants to win without doing the requisite work.  A loser tends to have his ego invested in his selections.  If his horse wins, he’s a certified genius, and if it loses, he’s a low life ignoramus.  Hence the need to find an excuse when he loses<br>  Winners strive for excellence while losers strive to get by.  Winners have goals, and plans to get them to their goals.  Losers have daydreams.  They dream about winning the lottery or about a long-lost relative dying and leaving them a fortune.  Losers believe that winners are ‘lucky’.  They believe that external forces are responsible for their destiny.  <br>Most people view wealthy people as successful.  People are not successful because of their wealth – they are wealthy because of their success.  By our behaviour we choose to be a winner or a loser.  We each have a success mechanism and failure mechanism built into us.  Unfortunately, if we choose not activate our success mechanism, our failure mechanism goes off automatically.

    (Edited by InvisibleLayer at 6:42 pm on Aug. 16, 2006)

    #96434
    InvisibleLayer
    Member
    • Total Posts 101

    Discipline

    Patience

    Persistence

    Dedication

    Knowledge<br>

    #96438
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from InvisibleLayer on 6:39 pm on Aug. 16, 2006[br]Hi there, winning is an attitude!

    It’s about not being denied.  Winners do what losers refuse to do.  A loser refuses to keep records.  A loser refuses to do original research or in fact read the research of others, never mind validate it.  A loser doesn’t read books on the subject of horse racing.  A loser doesn’t seek out a winner for advice.  A loser views a losing day at the track as money irretrievably lost.  A winner views money left at the track as an interest-bearing loan that he’ll be back to collect.<br>  Losing is also an attitude.  A loser wants something for nothing.  He wants to win without doing the requisite work.  A loser tends to have his ego invested in his selections.  If his horse wins, he’s a certified genius, and if it loses, he’s a low life ignoramus.  Hence the need to find an excuse when he loses<br>  Winners strive for excellence while losers strive to get by.  Winners have goals, and plans to get them to their goals.  Losers have daydreams.  They dream about winning the lottery or about a long-lost relative dying and leaving them a fortune.  Losers believe that winners are ‘lucky’.  They believe that external forces are responsible for their destiny.  <br>Most people view wealthy people as successful.  People are not successful because of their wealth – they are wealthy because of their success.  By our behaviour we choose to be a winner or a loser.  We each have a success mechanism and failure mechanism built into us.  Unfortunately, if we choose not activate our success mechanism, our failure mechanism goes off automatically.

    (Edited by InvisibleLayer at 6:42 pm on Aug. 16, 2006)<br>

    <br>It has to be said that is one outstanding post.

    I bow down to you Sir. :notworthy:

    #96440
    jilly
    Member
    • Total Posts 608

    Google?

    #96441
    Librettist
    Member
    • Total Posts 559

    Quote: from The Market Man on 5:44 pm on Aug. 16, 2006[br]

    A couple of tips I would give anyone are :

    1) Completely disregard comments from owners, trainers, jockeys.

    2) Completely ignore tipsters / so called experts.

    3) stay away from multiple bets.

    4) Never ever chase losses.

    5) Don’t bet until everything is right in whatever way you choose your bets.

    Be your own man and do things your way, trust your own knowledge.

    <br>I don’t keep strict records as such I know most do but I keep a running total of how much I’m up / down.

    My advice unless you’ve been into racing for at least ten years don’t even bother trying to make a profit because it takes a long, long time to learn.

    (Edited by The Market Man at 5:45 pm on Aug. 16, 2006)<br>

    <br>Just to highlight how this opinions differ in this game I would say that I agree with nearly all of that except the first point. You can glean valuable information and draw inference from comments made by connections. Not so much the ones published on the RP website for all to see but the odd little snippet you might hear in a post or pre race interview. Keep a record of it and use it as part of your armoury. It took me nine years of being a mug before I learned.

    Would also recommend a couple of excellent books; Against the Crowd by Alan Potts and Mordin on Time by Nick Mordin.

    Good luck!<br>

    #96442
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3106

    <br>Market Man,

    The post you liked so much is a straight reprint from a US book called Commonsense Handicapping written by Dick Mitchell.

    How do I know that – well I used the same piece on the last page of my own book! Only I acknowledged the source.

    AP

    #96443
    The Market Man
    Member
    • Total Posts 396

    Quote: from apracing on 7:53 pm on Aug. 16, 2006[br]<br>Market Man,

    The post you liked so much is a straight reprint from a US book called Commonsense Handicapping written by Dick Mitchell.

    How do I know that – well I used the same piece on the last page of my own book! Only I acknowledged the source.

    AP

    <br>Ok. In that case I retract my bow. :wink:

    #96444
    Nor1
    Member
    • Total Posts 384

    Two tips.

    Only bet what you can afford to lose.

    It is difficult to make a decent annual profit unless you are an "insider".

    #96445
    slipperytoad
    Member
    • Total Posts 419

    I’m trying! :o See link below

    Most of the main points have been covered above but here are some additional comments

    1.Read this forum on a regular basis! There are a lot of well-connected knowledgeable people on this forum who know their onions. In addition there are some archived posts on this site that are absolutely gold!

    2.Study, Study, Study. Learn the game! If it were easy to be successful at punting then you would not be asking your question.  I would point you toward the Mark Cotton’s (the original “pricewiseâ€ÂÂ

    #96446
    rory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    Being able to afford to lose is hugely important. How much you bet and on which selections should be purely mathematical (using a broad definition) decisions. The problem with having finite resources is that you bet according to what you have left. "I’ve got £120 and there’s 6 races, so I’ll bet £20 a race" is a bad choice, but common among many casual punters.

    #96447
    tooting
    Member
    • Total Posts 379

    I like the notion that it takes ten years of losing to become a "winner".  Mainly because that’s how long it took me!

    In my defence I had 10% tax and a cosy bookie cartel to overcome.  Plus I’m an idiot.

    Even so, is there anyone out there who honestly managed to become profitable in super quick time without a long hard apprenticeship as a mug punter?

    <br> <br>

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