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How many days ban …

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  • #19096
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    …. did Seamus Heffernan get on So You Think in yesterday’s Eclipse?

    I note that much praise has been given him for this ride, here and elsewhere – some of it from people who are loud in their protests that the Whip should be banned. Ironic, don’t you think? when I also note that he gave the horse ten of the best, in rhythm and allowing the horse reasonable time to respond.

    I append the current BHA Guidelines on whip usage, and appeal (to anyone who can) to explain why Dettori got a long ban for the ride on Rewilding, and Heffernan got nothing for yesterday’s ride on So You Think.

    For me, of course, it’s a good example of why the vague, current rule should be ditched, in favour of a harmonised rule on acceptable whip use, agreed with both France and Ireland.

    Do not misunderstand me. I do not believe there was anything at all wrong with Heffernan’s usage, which ensured an exciting horse race which So You Think wouldn’t have won without that persuasion.

    But equally, there was nothing wrong with Dettori’s usage on Rewilding at Ascot.

    I hope by including the Rule Document itself, to promote a more rational, less emotional and subjective debate.

    Note: The file is in two JPG files, as TRF doesn’t allow PDF or DOC uploads.
    [attachment=1:1x24i1r7]whipuse-1.jpg[/attachment:1x24i1r7]
    [attachment=0:1x24i1r7]whipuse-2.jpg[/attachment:1x24i1r7]

    #363466
    RubyisgodinthesaddleRubyisgodinthesaddle
    Member
    • Total Posts 1150

    He got 10 whacks alright and didn’t exactly give a lot of time to respond. Heff should have got a ban for that….he did over use the whip when he was trying to get it into full stride IMO but once he did the whip was put away.

    Yes i like to have seen a ban their…The main problem is the visual fact that their was no inside camera to show it.

    #363471
    yeatsyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2925

    I’m afraid there’s no hope with the current BHA, all they can do is count the number of strokes irrespective of whether they are light taps or full blooded whacks, unless they are too full blooded.
    I fully expect the number of strokes allowed to be reduced at the end of their lengthy review into whip use in October as Britain apparently leads the way in such matters according to Jamie Stier.

    #363490
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Well

    Yeats

    , part of my bafflement comes from the fact that the current Guideline has no mention of numbers, as far as I can see from the document I attached, which I downloaded from the BHA website.

    We all seem to be assuming that there is a threshold number of strokes: but I can’t see that there is.

    And when the very people who slammed Dettori for whacking Rewilding ("lock him up and throw away the key") are praising Heffernan for a fine ride, it seems to me that the debate is being ruled by instant emotions rather than objectivity.

    The whole point of this BHA Guideline

    was

    to be vague. It succeeds admirably in that! The problem has become the sniping at every decision, positive or negative, that Stewards make on this issue – irrespective of where they show common sense (Heffernan) or not (Dettori).

    That is why a joint agreement with the other major European countries, something acceptable to all, is necessary to stop this rot.

    #363527
    yeatsyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2925

    That is why a joint agreement with the other major European countries, something acceptable to all, is necessary to stop this rot.

    That is the sensible option Pinza, unfortunately the BHA only agree with it when they don’t want to do anything. When they want to do something that no one else is bothered about such as remounting or new whip rules they do it unilaterally with the premiss that Britain leads the way on such issues and the rest of the world will follow our shining example. Pity they don’t lead the way on prize money instead of being bottom of the pile.

    There are the number of hits with the whip recommended on the BHA website, if you go on rules of racing and then on to procedures and penalties 2011 it’s on there.
    I think Dettori’s 9 day ban was all based on the number of hits above the recommended, the more hits above the recommended the more days ban.

    #363561
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    There are the number of hits with the whip recommended on the BHA website, if you go on rules of racing and then on to procedures and penalties 2011 it’s on there.
    I think Dettori’s 9 day ban was all based on the number of hits above the recommended, the more hits above the recommended the more days ban.

    Thank you,

    Yeats

    – yes the "strokes guidline" is there in the 2011 booklet – not referenced from the site’s front page database, which is why I missed it. And according to this, the Stewards were correct not to ban Heffernan, who just fell below the minimum "trigger" from 1.5f out.

    I attach the relevant paragraph, for anyone who may be interested to see precisely upon what Guideline the Stewards are basing their interpretation of the Rules.
    [attachment=0:12ab1kc2]Days.JPG[/attachment:12ab1kc2]

    #363617
    ajiaji
    Member
    • Total Posts 470

    Surely the difference betwen the two is Frankie broke the rules by a substantial margin and Seamus stayed within the rules.

    #363629
    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4012

    Was this the race some years ago where Frankie"called in" the stewards to point out to them that Heffernan had forced him wide coming round the bend?Under Frankies direction the stewards reviewed the race aand agreed with Frankie that he had been fored wide and banned Heffernan as per Frankies directive.I reviewed the race in question many times and could find nothin wrong,just like there was nothing wrong in Fortunes ride on Saturday.

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