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Various threads in the Big Races section are being tainted with dissing of this year’s 3yos. I thought we should have an all out discussion about this, particularly as DJ has written today that he thinks the Big Races section has split the Forum into two parts.
Admittedly it is hard to compare them against the older horses, because most of the best ones have been retired, except Goldikova, Conduit and Tartan Bearer. The latter two have their knockers as well.
I can’t see how anyone can think of them as anything than as above average. Admittedly, due to my poor racereading skills I was unable to work out until recently what all the fuss was about Rip Van Winkle.
Fame And Glory is being knocked, when the only thing he has done wrong is come 2nd in the Derby to a 2000 Guineas.
Sea The Stars has a rating above 130, but is still viewed as ordinary by some.
Rip Van Winkle
Fame And Glory
Sea The Stars
SariskaThese are great horses.
Jury still out on
Harbinger
Finjaan
Art ConnoisseurI suppose.
No one else on this forum is willing to admit that Mastercraftsman could be great as well, because of the effect on other people’s egos.
I know I’m not much cop at racereading, but I knew I had seen a great performance when I saw the 2008 Pouliches, so I have the confidence to question the Emperor’s New Clothes – I think he is actually wearing some this time.
Clearly the best horse around based on current evidence is Sea The Stars. Perhaps Rip is now better but we’re not likely to get a chance to see.
I strongly disagree with the notion that Sariska and Fame And Glory are great. The latter’s form has been abysmal while Sariska’s form has been very good but still questionable.
Art Connoisseur I am 100% sure is an Ascot specialist who got lucky with the rail. Finjaan and Harbinger could both be extremely good while Alwaary could also come into the equation easily.
For me, the 2 races for the 3yos to really prove their worth in are the Juddmonte and the Arc. It’s very feasible that the 3yo milers and 10f horses are very good while the middle-distance ones are crud.
Personally if Conduit, Ask and Vision D’Etat are at their best on Arc day, I cannot see a 3yo troubling them (this coming from someone who has never even considered backing an older horse in an Arc). I really wouldn’t be surprised to see Fame And Glory become a Cup horse, nor would I be surprised to see Cavalryman become another Sagamix (minus the Arc win) while Stacelita and Sariska are sent to Newmarket and America to try and salvage some respect.
I fear the jury on Rip Van Winkle will always be out given the QE2’s very likely to be a Sussex rematch although Aqlaam might turn up.
How likely is Goldikova to turn up for the QEII?
Would Freddie regard it as endangering the Breeders’ Cup bid?
I’m not sure why it’s never been mooted as a possible target. He actually said the Foret is a possibility and that’s a week later so not really sure what’s going on. Perhaps the starters over here wouldn’t be as generous as the French ones since she’s quite unruly?
what part of sariska’s form is in question?. she ran the same CD at epsom faster than sea the stars and Ask in the coronation. won a group 1 in facile style next time out. what would she have to do?.
"I really wouldn’t be surprised to see Fame And Glory become a Cup horse"
I would be extremely surprised. Despite Matsrecraftsman and Rip Van Winkle advertising their claims in reasonably convincing style I think FAG may well still prove to be the cream of O’Brien’s crop. The only Cup he’ll be winning will be of the Breeders Cup variety.
"blackfingernail":2okpoc3p wrote: what part of sariska’s form is in question?. she ran the same CD at epsom faster than sea the stars and Ask in the coronation. won a group 1 in facile style next time out. what would she have to do?.
I might be being harsh on her, I’ll admit that, but Ghanaati, Rainbow View, Fantastic, etc, have all destroyed the fillies’ form.
I would be extremely surprised. Despite Matsrecraftsman and Rip Van Winkle advertising their claims in reasonably convincing style I think FAG may well still prove to be the cream of O’Brien’s crop. The only Cup he’ll be winning will be of the Breeders Cup variety.
I’m not saying he’s not talented and might be competitive over the trip but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him turn into a Septimus.
irish 3 years old are correct but french 3 years old are total dogs
sorry but this is the truth
I think the curent crop of 3yo’s are good. Above Average. (Not the horse above average mind, lol).
I think the lack of genuine quality or improving older horses makes it difficult to argue the point though. This years 2000 Guinneas and Derby were better classics than the same races last year (in my opinion).
"Zarkava":3n055jlt wrote:
what part of sariska’s form is in question?. she ran the same CD at epsom faster than sea the stars and Ask in the coronation. won a group 1 in facile style next time out. what would she have to do?.
I might be being harsh on her, I’ll admit that, but Ghanaati, Rainbow View, Fantastic, etc, have all destroyed the fillies’ form.
I would be extremely surprised. Despite Matsrecraftsman and Rip Van Winkle advertising their claims in reasonably convincing style I think FAG may well still prove to be the cream of O’Brien’s crop. The only Cup he’ll be winning will be of the Breeders Cup variety.
I’m not saying he’s not talented and might be competitive over the trip but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him turn into a Septimus.
I always find it interesting where AOB sends his big winners afterwards. Frozen Fire went to the St Leger. Soldier of Fortune generally seen as a 1 1/2 mile horse. F&G has been sent to Irish Champion stakes. the same race as Dylan, Duke of Marmalade, Oratorio etc. It indicates he thinks very highly of him.
He tends to send his best horses to that race.
what part of sariska’s form is in question?. she ran the same CD at epsom faster than sea the stars and Ask in the coronation. won a group 1 in facile style next time out. what would she have to do?.
I might be being harsh on her, I’ll admit that, but Ghanaati, Rainbow View, Fantastic, etc, have all destroyed the fillies’ form.
up variety.
Well it’s now indisputable that the 3yo fillies are poor.
I still don’t think we have a proper gauge on the 3yo colts. On Eclipse form they’re very good (which I think is unfair on Conduit) but on King George form they’re very poor (which I think is unfair on Golden Sword) and I’m not sure where we’re going to be able to make a proper comparison bar the Arc.
Just been announced that Tartan Bearer is out for the season, so that measuring stick has disappeared.
Is Sariska being in season a bit similar to humans? If it is every 29 days, then she will be in season again on the 19th September.
So the good news for the Arc is that Sariska won’t be in season.
The bad news is that she will be on the rag.
I prepare myself to be shot down in flames but I was there today and Midday would have won that race….so I think that proves how out of form Sariska was….
Indian Skimmer, can you smell something burning?
Zarkava,
. Is that really the way to reply to someone making their first posting?
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