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Mergenavig
Henry in the Derby-They’re Havin’ a Laff!I think it’s a bit sad when a man of APOB’s intelligence and insight with regard to the thoroughbred is required to talk nonsense by his employers in order to serve some economic agenda. After giving an excellent (unscripted) interview after the Guineas about Henry’s natural speed and how he even had doubts if he’d last the mile he’s been forced to backtrack today in the paper talking about him running in the Derby. He wouldn’t get 12 furlongs in the horse ambulance and Magnier and Co. should be ashamed at making their top man speak to a script instead of telling it like he sees it.
Its not just Coolmore/Ballydoyle who do daft things like this. Remember Cape Verdi?
The thing with them is you have to look past the hype and assess their horses on what you’ve seen yourself. I was never fooled by the Galileo has so much speed he could win the July Cup rubbish to justify him running in the Irish Champion and Breeders Cup Classic. Also I never understood why they kept running Dylan Thomas on soft ground when he’s alway ran well below best on it. My only hope is that if he does run in it, he recovers and still has a racing career as many a horse (including winners) have left too much of themselves on the Downs never to be the same again.You get the impression sometimes that AOB doesnt believe what he is telling the interviewers and ive even sensed that the body language gives it away a little
Carvills point is spot on. Some of the claims made are outlandish and do no service for a man of his intelligence.
This story has been the most interesting post script to the guineas weekend for me. Its a 180 by O’Brien and gives an unintentional glimpse by him into how decisions are made at what times seems a very secretive setup. It may not be as democratic as they’d have us believe.
I’ve always thought running Henry on "national hunt ground" a second time after trainer and jockey commented on how much he didn’t act on it the first time (just 13 days previously) was strange and very un Aidan OBrien like as was running George Washington in the slop at the Breeders. Perhaps he wasn’t overly consulted…..
I cant remember the last time a 2000 Guineas winner was entered for the Derby and the Kings Stand in the same season.
I can’t see a problem with keeping your options open in the event of soft or heavy ground at the Curragh or their other horses not living up to expectations. How many said Hawk Wing wouldn’t get the Derby trip in a horsebox, he would have won it by 10 lengths without a fellow stablemate in the race and it doesn’t look a vintage field this year.
Henrythenavigator is bred to get more than a mile, but I don’t think he has shown any signs in any previous runs that he has the scope for a mile and a half at Epsom.
I think the option of running Henry in the Derby is a reflection of Coolmore believing they don’t have a Derby horse. Irving, Kingdom and Volta don’t seem to be up to it.
Also, are they saying they’d go for the Ire Guineas and the Derby?
If they got stuffed with Henry in the former by New Approach, then the Bolger team could legitamately say they have the best horse. Where as if Henry does not run, Coolmore can say if New Approach wins then Henry would’ve beaten him.
Henry lacks the scope for further improvement being a small horse.
If he runs in the Derby instead there is a valid excuse of getting beat, with no excuse for the Irish Guineas. There is less to gain and more to lose by going for the shorter race, with a stud career in mind.Ginge
P.S. It was long odds-on Aiden would say in his interview "he shows so much speed, so he does", he says it about every Group 1 winner (stud prospect). If Coolmore can get it in the heads of owners a horse shows speed it will help it’s stud career.
Having said that Henry did show a fine turn of foot, which just shows nobody takes any notice of Aiden when he comes out with the speil. Even when it is true.Value Is EverythingThe Coolmoore representitives at Epsom could well be the French trained Thewayyouare and Gagnoa, if Aiden is struggling for a runner in Derby and Oaks.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingYou get the impression sometimes that AOB doesnt believe what he is telling the interviewers and ive even sensed that the body language gives it away a little
Carvills point is spot on. Some of the claims made are outlandish and do no service for a man of his intelligence.
Not as outlandish as your comments clivex
"Im in total agreement with Salselon here. If this was a Channon horse (who can get them fit early) with Henry’s form…he would be at least 20/1"
Just so you are all aware guys, Henry’s damn ran over 12f and was not disgraced finishing 4th in an Irish oaks, also he was hardly stopping in the Guineas now was he?
JohnJ
I’ll be amazed if Henrythenavigator runs at Epsom. As for the yard not having an Epsom contender, considering the proper trials are only just starting, it’s odds on at least 1 will emerge. Some people were quick to write off Washington Irving after his reappearance but he got a very easy time of things and I think we’ll see a very different colt in the Derrinstown.
Henry is simlairly bred to Virgina Waters who after winning the guineas was sent to epsom where she was a respectable fourth, and theres also the aspect that they sent Hawkwing there to have a stab at it and he ran a brilliant race, despite the presence of their other runner High Chaparral. Coolmore repeatedly stepped George Washington up in distance to 1m2f at 4 despite him always looking like a sprinter miler.
They have sent many of their horses with a bit of sadlers wells to epsom in recent years, with horatio nelson and peeping fawn (who had been 3rd in the irish 1000 only 2 weeks prior). And Henry is not so differntly bred to rule of law.
In recent years horses who have been 1m2f horses have been doing very well in the 2000 guineas, and with henry and new approach (who looks perfectly balanced for 1m2f) being well clear of the rest, perhaps they feel that he could be a horse who gets furrther but who just has plenty of burst speed.
They could indeed do a oratorio with him, and fail him at epsom to pull him back to the eclipse, which at this point does not look the strongest of races, especially with New Approach due for the irish derby just before it.
I do realise that henry has plenty of speed, but its burst speed and murtagh rode him to switch him off on saturday so perhaps they feel they can perhaps switch him off for longer with a bit of stamina training.
My thoughts are if he were to win the eclipse and new approach were to win the irish derby it would be some irish champion stakes.
I think the option of running Henry in the Derby is a reflection of Coolmore believing they don’t have a Derby horse. Irving, Kingdom and Volta don’t seem to be up to it.
People were saying this about their Guineas horses this time last week!
I would imagine the horse is very unlikely to run in the Derby, as unlikely as he is to run in the July Cup, but Coolmore do this all the time…keep options open and if it compliments the horse as a stallion prospect all he better. Twice Over is an unlikely Derby stayer, but he is due to run in it. Henrythenavigator would have to be an unlikely stayer (in the unlikely case he runs in it) but as others have said he is bred to get further.
This post started with the Coolmore speak. John Magnier could not stand by and hear Jim Bolger run down the Epsom Derby. So he had Aidan do the talking for him.The Coolmore fortune is based on Epsom.That stick with the round piece on top is what breeding is all about and nobody has the right to disrespect it.Least of all someone who has never won, or bred a Derby winner!
The horse has absolutely no chance whatsoever of getting 12f and I’d be surprised if he got 10f. They must be mad.
The horse has absolutely no chance whatsoever of getting 12f and I’d be surprised if he got 10f. They must be mad.
Despite the fact that his damn got 12f?
JohnJ
I often wonder if its wise to separate AOB from the Coolmore breeding operation. He’s in such a strong position as regards to the organisation that should it be assumed that he has, as part of his contract, shares in the leading stallions that he had trained to be world-class performers.
As such, when he is being interviewed about the respective talents of his stable, it would be expected for him, like any competent person who understands marketing, to look after his own interests and attempt to maximize the potential of his investments.
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