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Sorry to read that former professional gambler John (aka Brian) Lindsay lost his battle with cancer and passed away this Monday.
As the Racing Post reported John had racehorses with Michael Bell, Dandy Nicholls, Mick Easterby and Charles Egerton.
This is a true story about one horse he jointly owned with Darren Mercer.
Mely Moss was a horse known to have leg problems but had run a number of races in France and won a few. It was known to only go in soft ground.
David Bridgwater rode it at Auteuil when it was( allegedly) not trying that hard.
The months before Christmas 2006 was very cold in this country and Darren Mercer told Charles Egerton to take a few horses he had planned to race at The Cheltenham Festival in 2007 down to the South of France where they had connections to ensure they had an uninterupted preperation for the the festival.
Although Mely Moss was not due to run anywhere that horse made up the numbers and went along also. The message came back that ‘Mossy’ seemed to be jumping like a stag and they hatched a plan to enter it up as soon as possible in England.
They found a handicap race at Uttoxeter on the 24th Jan 2007 and as ‘Mossy’ had no form it was allocated top weight. The ‘word’ was that it would hack up and Jamie Osborne was booked to ride.
John Lindsay contacted Kevin Booth at Isiris (the tipping line) and had a deal that if he ‘wound’ up his customers that a ‘double maximum’ bet was coming up and if it won that John and Darren Mercer would collect £20k each. They were both having problems getting bets on at the time and thought that the £20k each from Kevin Booth would offset that problem a little.
The kudos Booth would recieve would likely to end up with all his customers rejoining and he then could make far more money in the end.On the day of the race those in the know had to get just a £100 on in the morning with as many shops as possible. Everyone also knew Isiris would be trying to deceive bookmakers by hinting that the ‘double maximum’ was at a different meeting but once the bookmakers knew exactly what horse they were to be backing the price would drop like a stone.
I started out having a £100 in every betting shop I paased from Brighton, through Hove, Lancing and finally ended up watching the race in Worthing.
Although every one knew the price would tumble from the morning tissue price of 20/1 the favourite in the Racing Post looked quite good.
Melly opended up at 12/1 and after the true horse was given out by Isiris just 3 minutes before the race was due to start still ended up a generous 4/1.
Jamie Osborne never ever looked like losing and eased down to win by 14 lenghts.Mely Moss eventually came 2nd in The Grand National to Papillion so they knew what they had on their hands the day it won its first race in this country!
One of my mates had shares with Axom who are a company running race horse syndicates and I tagged along with him to a Axom day at Charles Egertons yard. It was Lord Oaksey the Axom president that told us the plan.
His co owner Darren Mercer later received a 6 month ban for laying his horse Joss Naylor on Betfair in the Welsh National when he knew it would not even run.
Look up Mely Moss on the Racing Post site as its form is all still on there.
R.I.P. John.
One of your finest days!I see Alan Merritt passed away on Sunday, also cancer. He was a great supporter of tracks in the south and had horses with Hannon and Kirk.
I met him at Brighton two years ago as he was on the adjoining table in the restaurant. Didn’t know who he was at the time but he had a runner that day and told us all about him. A gentleman.I don’t know of the man of which Seagull speaks, and can confess to not having read his post as it undoubtedly contains references to massive winning bets he’s placed at ridiculous prices, but that’s not on marb.
Drone
You used to words ‘charlatan’ and ‘deception’ concerning Mely Moss winning its first race in this country.What were the owners meant to have done?
This was a horse that was expected to win.A. Phone up every bookmaker and attempt to have as much money on as possible?
Darren Mercer was at the time a Manchester based stockbroker with many horses so how much would he have got on?B Travel to the race track and tell any one they saw that they were to back their horse?
C. Not to back it but just pay for all the expenses associated in keeping the horse?
D. Make a well planned attempt to maximise the profits if it wins?
Would you class Martin and David Pipe and leading owner David Johnson as charlatans and of using deception or of being just privvy to information that they had no obligation to pass on but just used it for themselves?
Trainer and jockey Lucy Bridges was at the time the girl friend of David Pipe. Lucy was training a horse named Nero West and David was told (and I believe saw it first hand) that this horse was suddenly working excptionally well.
David Pipe told just one owner about this and that was his main patron David Johnson. He told the Racing Post at the time he backed it.
This horse won @33/1 not because others fell in a 6 runner race but because it beat 14 other horses by 15 lenghts.There was ‘mumblings’ that other owners were not privvy to the information that this horse who would be ridden by the trainer was expected to win.
The only winner she has trained in the last 5 seasons.
Charlatans and using deception or being clever and using knowledge to their advantage?
Seagull
"Darren Mercer was at the time a Manchester based stockbroker with many horses so how much would he have got on"
I have seen elsewhere that bookmakers are often willing to accommodate owners with much larger bets than they would take from others, because it gives them direct information about the confidence behind a horse. Not being an owner, I don’t know whether that is true, but it sounds plausible.
If you are right about Mr Mercer laying a horse of his knowing it was not going to run, it tells us all we need to know about him.
George
google Darren Mercer’s name up
this may work
Seagull
Thanks. I see he has a website for his financial advice business. I wonder whether his warning off from racing has hampered that, or indeed added to his client list!
Seagull
Other than the grubby details you’ve kindly supplied, the Mely Moss gamble is fresh in the memory, as is the Pipe/Bridges one.
The myriad tales of subterfuge and insider dealing that continue to infect racing leave me cold, unmoved and bored; hence ‘yawn’. Why some of those involved on the periphery of such ‘inspired gambles’ relish the re-hashing I don’t know: an ego boost? A misplaced idea that there’s an impressionable audience ready to lap it up?
Strangely, it was the names Mercer, Isiris and Booth that induced thoughts of charlatans and deception. Can’t think why.
Pray tell me why Mr Lindsay’s involvement in your tale marks him down as a ‘professional gambler’ or him ‘knowing how to bet’?
Are those who gain their ‘edge’ by a reliance on third-party ‘information’ denied the majority to be lauded as ‘pros’ or should that be restricted to those astute enough to turn a profit from burying their heads in the form book and who prefer to don ear plugs when whispers fill the air?
The satisfaction of knowing it was your doing and yours alone that ‘beat the book’ or the dissatisfaction of realising the profit you make is due to following the orders of others.
I made a point of thanking you for the time and effort involved in running the ‘EW Double’ and ‘Old Boy’ System threads, and those thanks still apply, but this latest missive and your recent spat with Dave Jay doesn’t reflect a deal of credit on you.
Still each to their own. You’re hardly alone in finding the seedy side of racing attractive.
IMVVVHO of course
Drone,
First of all the Racing post classed John Lindsay as a professional gambler just the same term they would probably add when writing about Harry Findlay, Alan Potts, Johnny ‘Lights’ and the late Dodger Mc Carthy and many others I could care to name.That is not a slur of their characters its just the name of what they do to live.
I only started the thread as John Lindsay had passed away this week so it was topical and the Racing Post devoted just a small article about his life.
When Dodger Mc Carthy was killed in the car accident the Racing Post devoted a lot of space to some of his exploits.
No doubt when Harry Findlay dies he would be given at least a whole page to list his various massive winning and also losing gambles with the likes of Paul Barber, Paul Nicholls, and various Greyhound trainers contributing as long of course they survived him.
Of course it will always give one much more satisfaction winning sums of money from betting knowing they have won solely on their own luck or judgement whether by studying form for hours or just picking horses by the names they fancied, the same way that lady won the scoop 6 or even by sticking just to some sort of system such as to the 2 you mentioned.
If you had been told by David Pipe that his girlfriend had a horse that was expected to ‘run well’ at a massive price would you not have had a decent bet on it realising that the information seemed to be coming from someone who probably was privvy to information not known by many.
When the late Graham Rock won massive sums on Pasternak do you expect Sir Mark Prescott kept him up to scratch about how the horse was working and marked his card or that Graham had the bet solely on studying form without Sir Mark even being asked a single question regarding the horses chances?
When Barry Hills was a stable lad and won enough money to set himself up training after a horse from the yard he was working at won the Lincoln was those large bets struck solely on form or by someone knowing more than the bookmakers or 99.9999% of the population did?
I believe you’re missing the point rather Seagull; your story is ostensibly about John Lindsay and yet features you considerably more heavily than him. People tend to find that sort of thing self aggrandising. Personally, I couldn’t give a monkeys, although I must point out that your dates are ten years wrong.
I enjoyed reading your stories Seagull. Do you have any good ones about Ken Higson, he had interests down your way, didn’t he?
Rory
All I mentioned concerning myself were two things.One was that I tagged along with a freind of mine to an Axom open day.
My friend was the one with a small share in a Axom syndicate.
I was only invited as there were 2 tickets and as my friend was divorced and he had no partner to go with and we shared the drivingSecond was I had some bets in various towns.
I never claimed to have won enough to purchase a house, car or even a new pair of socks.That was all.
The coup on Mely Moss was was planned by the trainer and owners. I never claimed to have any involvement what so ever.
With regard to the question of if you had known about the Lucy Bridges gamble for example would you have had just a small bet on has so far been un answered.
So that I guess the answer would be a yes of course I would have!
There are gambles set up almost every day by owners and trainers that unless one is privvy to the plans and hopes they will pass us all by and only come to our attention should they win.
A recent one was Sheena West winning wth Golan Way this week at 33/1.
Her comments in the Post were ‘I’ve had this race in mind since the day he came to us.’ No doubt her 20 strong owners of this horse had a bet on their horse as there were a lot of happy owners according the the Racing Post in the winers enclosure after the race.No way would anyone have backed this one on known form as there was not any witha rating on the flat of just 72.
Students of form no doubt backed the even money shot with Group form in Germany trained by Nick Henderson or maybe the Alan King runner whichthe Post reported someone had £2,000 on.
With regard to the question of if you had known about the Lucy Bridges gamble for example would you have had just a small bet on has so far been un answered.
No, qv the reference to ear plugs
And I don’t do ‘small bets’ just boring old level stakes
Mely Moss, Pasternak, Frankincense etc etc. ‘Legendary gambles’ that came off. Legendary perhaps because most don’t.
Fin
As Rory pointed out Seagull, the dates are 10 years out!
The information about Edgy sending a load of horses to the South of France in winter 96 is dubious also – to my memory, the last runners to go to France that year were in the summer when Mysilv was 2nd in the French Champion Hurdle; I do not remember anything going to France that winter.
I’m not entirely sure what was so wrong about the gamble on Mely Moss – he was a horse who had come over from France and was backed heavily on his debut as connections knew they had a decent horse on their hands. It’s not as though the horse had been pulled previously, he was a debutant on these shores!
I made a mistake writing in what year this occurred.
As you may well know or be able to check the race took place over here on the 24th Jan 1997.
Darren Mercer on his trainers advice sent his Cheltenham hopes to winter in the south of France.
That is what I posted.I never mentioned he had runners there in that period of time although as you correctly have stated he did send a few runners to race in France other years.
The main gamble was instigated by Kevin Booth and his tipping service.
He knew nothing about it until told.I have never been a member of his tipping service but from betfair posts among others his type of bet I think is normally second favourites each way.
Many horses I have bet on have become forgetable a month or so after and without consulting my diary would remain that way.
This race was over 11 years ago and without the joint owners death being reported in the Racing Post last week it would probably remained in the back of my mind.
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