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I totally understand the sentiments expressed by Gladders and Marlingford but, tbh, my interest in racing would vanish if there was no betting on it.
And on a practical level, funding the sport without Levy revenue from betting would be a challenge and a half.
It’s the interactive nature of racing via the betting that proves its USP in my view – it’s the sport when studying the participants and having a bet makes you feel every bit as engaged in the contest as you would if you actually owned the horse you’ve bet on, at least for the duration of the race.
Without the betting, the reality for many is it’s reduced to horses running round a field with scant interest in which one of them happens to pass the red lollipop first.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I’m sort of with Chezza on this, although I don’t bet on all the horses
televised, not even on a Saturday, but of those I haven’t had a bet, I’m
watching to identify one who would be worth a future punt and stick them
in my tracker with comments least I should forget. I can’t imagine a Grand
National, Derby, 2000 Guineas and other such races without having a bet, and
probably long before the race. When watching a Stewards Cup, Ayr Gold Cup,
Portland or such like, your senses are raised, heart beats a little faster
and you are desperately trying to keep your eye on your horse and working out
it’s way through for the jockey (why doesn’t he/she ever listen to me ?) when
surrounded by 20 odd horses. It’s easy enough if he/she is a Dakota Gold type
who is likely at the head of affairs from the off.I’ve loved the sport since I was betting with my Gran when I was about 10, even
though it was only tanner (sixpence) doubles or trebles. Even if I lost I then
had the great privilage of watching my Gran shouting at the telly when Jackie
Pallo was on, she really did hate him. Magic memories.All I can say to the Tin Man is that I wish him all the best doing something
that I don’t know that I could. I think you’ll find it hard watching a race
where in your mind you’ve got a notion as to who is the likely winner. That aside,
if you can do it you’re a better man than me Gunga Din. My respect and best wishes
to you Tin Man
“On a practical level, funding the sport without Levy revenue from betting would be a challenge and a half.”
Agree ID. Whether anyone likes it or not, for a substantial amount of its revenue racing depends upon punters betting on it and losing.
I can watch racing without a bet – but it is much better when I am involved.
Rightly or wrongly, like it or not, racing and betting are inextricably linked. If betting were banned tomorrow, the sport would be dead overnight. It would be just another minor equestrian sport like show jumping and eventing followed by enthusiasts only.
In racing people ‘support’ whoever they’ve bet on. In football, rugby etc, I support my team. If I bet against England at the weekend (and doing so in the rugby against Argentina is a good idea), I would still be delighted if we win. If I punt on some horse from the north in the racing league, I would not be celebrating if a horse from whatever team I’m supposed to support wins.
You don’t need to “support” anyone, Richard.
Whilst I appreciate the financing argument, I find it sad that people are essentially saying that they wouldn’t enjoy the pulsating drama of, say the 1973 Grand National or the 2018 Gold Cup, or the spellbinding brilliance of a Frankel or Constitution Hill as a sporting achievement in its own right.
Fair comment Gladders and I’m sure many here had our jaws on the floor when Frankel was 15 lengths clear and I can’t imagine many punted at 1/20 or whatever he was. Similarly I left Constitution Hill’s race well alone when at Cheltenham this year and just enjoyed the spectacle. That said, would I have been there if the other six contests were not betting events? In all honesty, no but I would probably watch some of it on TV in the same way I might watch a bit of eventing when the Olympics is on.
Plus I really don’t think that the day to day stuff would attract much interest if betting were not part of it.
“I find it sad”
I’m sure you’ll get over it, Gladders – cooking me a continental cheese omlette might help?
No?
Anyway, each to their own.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"For what it’s worth, I have celebrated various England wins in football, rugby and cricket far more than any betting win (and that is without a penny on, for or against). Many of them far more turgid and low quality performances than a Frankel or Constitution Hill. Can I explain it? No. But that’s the way I am.
Honest opinions given all round here I think and we’ll agree to disagree
Don’t think Gladders or Marlingford meant that Racing would be more popular if betting wasn’t part of Racing. Nor did they say people should watch racing bet free.
I agree with them that “it is sad” people can’t enjoy the racing without having a bet.
While pretty much giving up betting (and Timeform!) when doing my properties up it has surprised me how I’ve lost any interest in all but the top echelons.
Apart from one race – the Grand National – even the best Handicaps don’t mean anything to me at the moment.They’re only about who’s been given the best weight by one man – the handicapper. Where as I still love watching the best take on the best without the need for a bet. I’ve had bets in about five races in the last year.
Value Is EverythingI never once backed Frankel but I enjoyed watching him every time he ran. I watched his Queen Anne win again on YouTube earlier this week. It was beautiful to watch.
I would have enjoyed Constitution Hill’s two victories at Cheltenham no matter what. But I enjoyed them even more (and more than I ever enjoyed Frankel) due to having money on him both times. It added an extra level of excitement and satisfaction, especially the Champion Hurdle win with a long range ante post bet.
There was a comment on a different thread about betting being “a mug’s game”. I don’t want to sound like I am criticising anyone but I find comments like that disappointing on a racing forum. No disrespect to the purists but they do need to recognise that without punters betting and losing, the sport they enjoy so much would not exist in the way it does now.
Fair points, all.
CAS- in response to your last line: you’re right- racing would not be the same without betting. There would be far less racing and it would be a lot less bent.
Isn’t that what we all want anyway?
Believe me, I worked in a bookies for six years, betting in the way that most people do it is a mug’s game.
But done correctly it is not which brings us neatly back to the original post. You can and probably will win if you have enough time, effort and skill to put into it. Some of us recognise that we don’t and as a result don’t do it any more because we decide it’s not worth it (that is not in any way a criticism of what anyone else does, win or lose).
If therefore you think betting is a mug’s game and want to know why, the mirror is a good place to start.
Ah yes, Frankel and his win in the Queen Anne, Richard. True, not many backed him at normal win odds. Some of us in the Daily Lays And Plays section (led i think by Jonibake)…
Worked the race out that if Excellebration ran below his best then Frankel had the form to win by a long, long way… And with the Australian supermare Black Caviar also in action that week at Royal Ascot, Cecil and Abdulla would want him to win big in the first race of the meeting…
We took a good price for Frankel to win by 10+ lengths!Value Is Everything“Betting in the way that most people do it is a mug’s game.”
Agree Richard. The statement is true that plenty of mugs play the game but it is not inherently a mug’s game.
At the risk of sounding elitist, it does require a fair amount of intelligence to interpret complex information and data sets. With the best will in the world, a lot of betting shop punters – probably shuffling between the bookies and the pub all afternoon – are not going to be applying a high level of analytical skills. My dad always used to say look how many betting shops are next to a pub!
The bookies know they will always win from those punters. Barney Curley called them “canon fodder”.
Glad – maybe so. But much of racing’s finances comes from the bookmakers via the Levy, paying racecourses for the pictures and through race sponsorship. Even the Derby itself is now sponsored by a bookmaker. You know as well as I do the money does not come out of their own pocket.
tbh Betting without any hope of overall profit shouldn’t really be thought of as a “mugs game” either. Albeit it wouldn’t interest me… But you’ve only got to watch the faces of punters in the Grandstand or in a betting shop cheering on their winner to know how much enjoyment they’ve had.
People going down the pub for a pint or three in the evening don’t say “oh this is a mugs game”, just because they don’t make a profit on their purchases of pints… So why should a punter have to make an overall profit from betting if he / she enjoys everything else about the sport?
Value Is Everything‘At the risk of sounding elitist’
Not at all, winning is bloody hard, and that’s before the books shut you down. Many think they can but it’s got to be a low single figure percentage who actually do. And the vast majority of those are the ones who study it inside out. Of course there will always be a few who land the dream lucky 63 and pay for their life’s betting and then some (and good luck to them I might add).
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