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Frankel was never withdrawn from any race because he was GREAT – he probably hated the ground on his final start (and certainly didn’t run to 147) but when you’re that brilliant you can have the wrong conditions and still beat a horse who loves the conditions and has a Timeform rating of 133.
Golden Horn is good, very good even.
But he’s not GREAT, he is no Frankel.
And Gosden knows this – he has a ground dependant 130+ horse on his hands so he did the only thing he could do and pulled him out to wait for hopefully better ground at York.
Good for racing?
No – and agree it was probably the most moderate King George in years, maybe ever.
But it was good business and racing, like it or not, at the top end is a business, not a sport.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I see your point Ian but I think the decision today will eventually turn out to be good for racing (see my thread on Daily, Lays and Plays for full explanation if you are interested!)
Today had a lot to do with timing. If it had been the end of the season he would have run but why bottom the horse when there are more prizes to be won?
As for the comparisons with Frankel, well I remember how much stick Henry used to get on here for avoiding the Derby and for avoiding the Arc and for not stepping him up in trip. You can’t please everyone Ian. In the end John Gosden did today what Henry always did – the right thing by the horse.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Exactly the decision I expected him to make and exactly the right decision. This is why Gosden is a great trainer. Many other trainers would have run him and regretted it. Head ruled the heart.
Only confirms what a total disregard Gosden has for the Punter.I was willing ‘Postponed’ home today just to shove it up Gosdens A*se.One thing for sure all this nonsense about ‘All weather Jockeys’ behaviour last time cost Adam Kirby his finest hour today and thats Gosdens fault again.The guys a total Prick, thank God he never won today.Justice!…..As for Frankies ride…Oh dear,that will p*ss Johnny G off too!
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jonibake wrote:</div>
Exactly the decision I expected him to make and exactly the right decision. This is why Gosden is a great trainer. Many other trainers would have run him and regretted it. Head ruled the heart.Only confirms what a total disregard Gosden has for the Punter.I was willing ‘Postponed’ home today just to shove it up Gosdens A*se.One thing for sure all this nonsense about ‘All weather Jockeys’ behaviour last time cost Adam Kirby his finest hour today and thats Gosdens fault again.The guys a total Prick, thank God he never won today.Justice!…..As for Frankies ride…Oh dear,that will p*ss Johnny G off too!
Hi Gord!!! I wondered why you hadn’t piped up yet?!! Glad you are still alive.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
What’s all this “best for the horse” nonsense and the “risking the unbeaten record” nonsense?
Golden Horn would’ve won at least 4 lengths today, please don’t tell me he wouldn’t have beaten Postponed.
Risk? OF WHAT? What damage would’ve been done to the horse?
Gosden ruined todays race. Furthermore, after watching the race and seeing the winning time I bet you any money if he could make the decision again he’d change it.
He got carried away the same as those who made Clever Cookie a 4/1 shot. Utter lunacy.
There were 15 non-runners at Ascot today. Clearly lots of lunatic trainers around.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I think Golden Horn would have won comfortably if he had run today, I thought evens was a licence to print money had he been given the nod.
This was a good pot to pass up after deciding to go for it and the initial feeling as a punter/viewer has to be a sense of great disappointment.
In defence of trainer and owner, the horse has already had a busy campaign and there are other races still to be won later on. Another hard race was probably something that would leave a mark for later. As it stands the Juddmonte and perhaps The Arc are the next two targets and I’ll be happy enough to see him take in those two races. I really do want to see him take his chance in The Arc, I think he needs to go there and land that one to truly join the greats. I’ll be a bit miffed if he runs in a couple of 10f races and chickens out of the clash with Treve.
It is a bit sad for the King George and a bit of a slap in the face that their race is not deemed worthy of risking a horse in though. It leaves this mid season race as something of a non-event, populated by horses who are not truly group 1 class because the good ones have other fish to fry.
I never thought I would see a King George where a horse like Clever Cookie would go off such a ridiculous price and that’s sad for the race I believe. I also think it’s a sign of the times that Frankie can’t win in a driving finish like the one today anymore. Twenty years ago you would have put your house on Eagle Top getting up in that race. I had to watch it three times before I believed he managed to get beat there. I think I’ll upgrade Golden Horn to 135 to allow for Frankie
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Top post as usual Stevie (sorry if I am jumping on your bandwagon). Agree he would probably have won today but I reckon that would have been the last race he would have won. It was sad for the race but who could have foreseen such awful weather at this time of year? It was just rotten luck.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
The time suggests to me that the going was, at worst, good to soft.
Would Golden Horn have won?
Quite possibly.
Is the King George in long term decline?
Definitely.
The post Epsom commercial emphasis with a Derby winner nowadays is on proving you have the speed to win a Group 1 at 1m 2f too.
Australia was aimed at York, not Ascot, for this reason last year and, having won the Eclipse, it wasn’t a hard decision to swerve today’s race for Golden Horn.
It is very sad as I used to regard the race as the British “Arc” but, in describing the French race as “a level higher” after Postponed won today, Luca Cumani said what we were all thinking – the 2015 King George ended up being a Group 1 in name only, the quality of the depleted field was Group 2 at best.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The time suggests to me that the going was, at worst, good to soft.
Would Golden Horn have won?
Quite possibly.
Is the King George in long term decline?
Definitely.
The post Epsom commercial emphasis with a Derby winner nowadays is on proving you have the speed to win a Group 1 at 1m 2f too.
Australia was aimed at York, not Ascot, for this reason last year and, having won the Eclipse, it wasn’t a hard decision to swerve today’s race for Golden Horn.
It is very sad as I used to regard the race as the British “Arc” but, in describing the French race as “a level higher” after Postponed won today, Luca Cumani said what we were all thinking – the 2015 King George ended up being a Group 1 in name only, the quality of the depleted field was Group 2 at best.
Agreed. This year we had the perfect opportunity to raise the profile of this once awesome race. It needs regular participation of the Derby winner to work properly within the pattern. This year we have a top class Derby winner and that would’ve possibly encouraged other trainers to target the King George. John gosden today did the race no favours at all and i could understand completely if there was any sort of threat to the horse or his wellbeing but there wasn’t there really wasn’t.
Golden horn has already proved he can win at ten furlongs by lifting the Eclipse, so job done in that respect, connections can pretty much pick and choose what to do after that. York is a sharper track than Sandown there is no uphill finish there and it will serve Gosden right if Golden Horn gets beat in the juddmonte and that is far from impossible.
Sunday morning the racing world could’ve been in a real buzz over this quality Derby winner adding the King George and joining the likes of Dancing Brave and Nashwan and Mill Reef to name a few, now it’s all a damp squib and the King George has had another nail hammered into it’s coffin.
Thanks Mr Gosden for that. Thanks a lot.
Top post as usual Stevie (sorry if I am jumping on your bandwagon). Agree he would probably have won today but I reckon that would have been the last race he would have won. It was sad for the race but who could have foreseen such awful weather at this time of year? It was just rotten luck.
I think you’re right Joni Golden Horn is such a brave horse giving 100% he could have come out of this with a tendon injury like Bustino or worse. As much as I wanted to see him run I think it was the right decision.
Postponed has his moment of glory and good for him, he has never run a bad race in his racing career and he has been highly tried in Group races, a much deserved first Group 1 victory, lets celebrate the winner and look forward to seeing Golden Horn run in the Juddmonte.Joni..You might already do this but… if you untick the box that says ‘Keep a note of the Edit’ it will not show up. I really miss the Post Preview option so I’m always using this
Jac Well done with your winners so far, that Simon Crisford’s Peril was a real saver but my favourite in his yard has to be First Selection. I think next year at Royal Ascot Mr Crisford’s yard will be amongst the players.
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Agreed Jac he is a trainer going places and should be followed. Another bandwagon I am jumping on (or building actually) is the brilliant Hugo Palmer. I predict a golden career for this extremely likeable and articulate man. If you don’t already then do check out he weekly blogs on his forum.
As for poor old Johnny G – he sounds like the man who cancelled Christmas. Such blatant disregard for everyone and everything apart from his silly horse who should run no matter what. It will serve him right if he never trains another winner and I hope his milk is off this morning when he pours it on his cornflakes coz hen he’ll get a really bad taste in his mouth and it will serve him right. If Golden Horn doesn’t go Juddmonte, IrishbChampion, English Champion, Arc, Breeders Cup, World Cup then I’m giving up the sport.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
We should also be on Andre Fabre’s case as well. He had a group 1 winner and multiple group 1 placed horse entered which would have enhanced the race, but he pulled him out due to conditions.
David Simcock had such disregard for this race as well, not running The Corsican due to the going.
I know it’s a bit different as Fabre is based in France and The Corsican isn’t a proven group 1 performer, but they scratched their horses for the same reasons.Sorry if that sounds a bit sarcastic, I’m just trying to get the point across. This would have been a much better situation if he just wasn’t entered for the damn race in the first place.
Jonibake, I think it was welfare of the horse’s stud value – rather than of the horse himself – that drove this decision. =D
I wasn’t aware horses pick up tendon injuries every time they run on ground too soft for them, Miss Triptych – especially “brave” (definition – no Timeform squiggle, perhaps?) ones. =D
As for Gosden, I am not really interested in the humans in this game beyond their statistical performance.
John Gosden may be the top bloke some say, the p***k others say, or something inbetween. I don’t care.
All I care about is the fact he is clearly a very capable trainer.
Anyone who is successful at anything is going to become more arrogant – they will always become less approachable too as everyone wants a piece of you, not because they like you, but because they like what you are and want to become a hanger on.
As it happens I think Gosden is ok – he likes to talk his big race horses down before races.
And he has his hobby horses – banging on about poor Adam Kirby endlessly.
But in the last 12 months he’s had Kingman and a Derby one-two so he must be doing something right on the track, the only thing that matters.
And try to remember it was so-called cowardly Gosden who persuaded the owner to take the 10f pedigree Golden Horn to Epsom and not Chantilly.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Slightly off topic but glad to see the people behind the British Champions Series are doing a great job with improving the quality of the King George as “Britain’s Arc”
Mr Gosden is borderline on his decisions which I think, as a result, always keeps us on edge. Remember how close he was to pulling Kingman out of the Irish 2000 Guineas due to the soft ground but it ended up turning into a procession for the horse? I think the same would’ve happened yesterday … that Golden Horn would’ve hosed up if he’d taken his chance. The horse is tactically versatile and has a great heart. I’m pretty sure Frankie would’ve rode Golden Horn the way he played it on Eagle Top … except GH’s finishing kick would’ve been far too potent for Postponed.
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