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Golan Way At Wincanton

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  • #20144
    MarkTTMarkTT
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2732

    Should be declared a non-runner. The horse refused to race, never went past the starting line so punters should have their money back.

    Please can we have this rule changed ?

    I backed The Minack so have no financial interest in that incident

    #376224
    yeatsyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2925

    The start, like the finish is part of the race. If a horse is to be treated as a non runner, the jockey should dismount and lead it off the track, not line up and start to ride a race when the tapes go up.

    Think Golan Way knew what was in store for him, thought they might have put him back over hurdles this year after his jumping over fences last season.

    #376233
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26574

    Golan Way is a good enough jumper of fences

    IF

    he can dominate. Hates being crowded and can sulk in amongst horses. Once he’s out on his own in front is genuine. Surprised to see his jockey walking him around with others at the start. Third to Quito De La Roque at Aintree isn’t bad chase form.

    There were lots of possible pace horses in the Badger today, so very doubtful Golan Way would get his own way.

    Agree Yeats, the start is part of the race. Had I backed The Minack I would not want any rule 4 deduction.

    value is everything
    #376243
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    There was a time when the Golan Ways of this world would have definitely been deemed non-runners – the only difference now is it affects the levy, and thereby racing’s income.
    The rules are meant to promote equity – for the punter whose horse never started, there is none.

    #376245
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26574

    It doesn’t happen often enough to make a difference to the levy Reet.

    value is everything
    #376248
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Expert on that as well, are you, Ginger? :roll:

    #376275
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26574

    Come off it Reet. :roll:
    You gave an opinion.
    I gave an opinion.
    That’s what this place is all about.

    value is everything
    #376278
    Richard Hoiles
    Member
    • Total Posts 197

    As it is a Rule 4 deduction then it is one set of punters subsidising anbother set.
    Whether you feel that is morally better or not may depend
    on which of the two you backed but given that some would
    not know and hence not collect refunded stakes on Golan
    yet all who backed Minack would have the deduction then it
    actually counts against the punter to refund.

    As levy is based on bookmaker profits not turnover then surely
    levy neutral as refunds to Golasn Way backers come from those of
    The Minack.

    #376279
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4609

    There are too many questionable starts in jump races without these non non-runners.

    My bugbears are when the field is strung out by a ridiculous amount or where a runner is allowed to get a flyer.

    Although I saw a new one this afternoon – the Sandown 15:00 – when half the field were still in the collecting ring when the starter released the tapes.

    #376280
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Ginger
    I give a considered opinion, usually confined to subjects I have some understanding of.
    You toe the party line, and build your opinion around it.

    #376287
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26574

    Ginger
    I give a considered opinion, usually confined to subjects I have some understanding of.
    You toe the party line, and build your opinion around it.

    "Usually confined to subjects (you) have some understanding of". :lol: :lol: :lol:

    No Reet,
    Some people are against Authority every time.
    I listen and form an opinion for or against.
    I’d like to see Summer Jumping banned, how is that "toeing the line"?

    Stick to the thread please Reet.

    value is everything
    #376336
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    As it is a Rule 4 deduction then it is one set of punters subsidising anbother set.
    Whether you feel that is morally better or not may depend
    on which of the two you backed but given that some would
    not know and hence not collect refunded stakes on Golan
    yet all who backed Minack would have the deduction then it
    actually counts against the punter to refund.

    As levy is based on bookmaker profits not turnover then surely
    levy neutral as refunds to Golasn Way backers come from those of
    The Minack.

    Doesn’t work like that though Richard, as the bookies hang on to a percentage of everything they take.
    If that sum is (say) 10%, then on a high profile race like today’s, a R4 of 10p in the £ would have meant them taking (say) £200k (10% of £2m – sp 8/1 – allowing for overround) less on the race nationally, of which £20k, annualised, would amount to a not inconsiderable drop in profit for them, and consequently, the levy.

    #376349
    Richard Hoiles
    Member
    • Total Posts 197

    OK lets take yesterdays example at Wincanton.

    Market Overrounds are as follows :

    The Minack 26.67
    Gone To Lunch 14.29
    Golan Way 11.11
    The Rainbow Hunter 10.52
    Benbane Head 10
    Meanus Dandy 9.09
    Richards Sundance 7.69
    Madison Du Berlais 7.69
    Alderluck 6.67
    Checkerboard 6.67
    Hello Bud 4.76
    Quilinton 1.49
    Dovers Hill 3.85
    ——
    120.5

    So bookmaker would take £26,667 on The Minack at 11-4 and pay out £100,000 making overall profit on the race of

    £20,500

    if they all ran.

    If Golan Way was a non runner then refund of bets from the turnover of £120,500 would be £11,111. Payout on The Minack would be reduced by the 10p in £1 Rule 4 to the profit element of the win bets (26,670 x 11-4 x 10%) £7,334,25 so becomes £92,665,75.
    Therefore total payouts to punters are now £92,665.75 + £11,111 = £103,776.75 making new profit on the race by declaring Golan Way a non runner (£120,000 – £103,776.75)

    £16,223.55

    Therefore reduction in bookmaker profit of

    £3.776.45

    and hence as levy based on bookmaker profit a fall in the levy.

    Where am I wrong ?

    #376356
    yeatsyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2925

    Although I saw a new one this afternoon – the Sandown 15:00 – when half the field were still in the collecting ring when the starter released the tapes.

    I noticed that too, can you imagine the furore if one at the back had jinked and dislodged its jockey off the track, presumably as the starter had started the race it would/should be declared a runner.

    I notice on the BHA website stewards enquiries and fines at Sandown regards passport irregularities for Gary Moore and changing equipment after weighing out for Victor Dartnell but nothing about the starter being punished for starting a race with half the field off the track. What a surprise!

    #376361
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    OK lets take yesterdays example at Wincanton.

    Market Overrounds are as follows :

    The Minack 26.67
    Gone To Lunch 14.29
    Golan Way 11.11
    The Rainbow Hunter 10.52
    Benbane Head 10
    Meanus Dandy 9.09
    Richards Sundance 7.69
    Madison Du Berlais 7.69
    Alderluck 6.67
    Checkerboard 6.67
    Hello Bud 4.76
    Quilinton 1.49
    Dovers Hill 3.85
    ——
    120.5

    So bookmaker would take £26,667 on The Minack at 11-4 and pay out £100,000 making overall profit on the race of

    £20,500

    if they all ran.

    If Golan Way was a non runner then refund of bets from the turnover of £120,500 would be £11,111. Payout on The Minack would be reduced by the 10p in £1 Rule 4 to the profit element of the win bets (26,670 x 11-4 x 10%) £7,334,25 so becomes £92,665,75.
    Therefore total payouts to punters are now £92,665.75 + £11,111 = £103,776.75 making new profit on the race by declaring Golan Way a non runner (£120,000 – £103,776.75)

    £16,223.55

    Therefore reduction in bookmaker profit of

    £3.776.45

    and hence as levy based on bookmaker profit a fall in the levy.

    Where am I wrong ?

    Richard
    I estimated total turnover on the race at £2m, you’ve commuted it to £200k. Neither of us know for certain, but – as the 2nd most valuable race on a Saturday – I’d suggest my figure is closer to the mark.
    With that assumption granted, bookmakers would be dropping £37k profit on the race – which, annualised, comes to a tidy sum.

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