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If it reasonably good ground at Aintree then the Betway Bowl (assuming that is still the name) over 3m1f is an option if they really want to try the trip again but likely they will send Clan for that race so dropping him back to 2m4f seems the obvious route. Could add the Oaksey Chase at Sandown over 2m6f as a likely target too.
Wouldn’t say Saint Calvados got “carted” TTC; just travels very well in his races at 3 miles. Whatever it was, did exactly the same thing in the previous year’s King George.
How a horse travels in races is an important thing to keep in mind when considering whether a horse will stay further, when In conjunction with how it finishes at that distance. While comparing that against how it’s travelled and finished at lesser distances.
Last season looked set for a better finishing position behind Frodon before weakening.
Contrasting that with his finishing effort at around 2 1/2 miles, first against Min in the Ryanair.
and in a three way photo for the Paddy Power handicap.
Weak finishes in both 3 mile King Georges totally different to the two 2 1/2 mile events.
Think any good form student would come to the conclusion Saint Calvados barely stays 3 miles.
Value Is EverythingAgree LD.
Saint Calvados is almost certain to go for the Ryanair again as only just failed against Min.
Aintree is a flatter sharper course than most, so is possible connections might try 3m again there if ground conditions are less testing. But suspect they’ll keep to 2m4f.
However, stable’s Clan Des Obeaux and Frodon’s health will probably have some say in where SC ends up. Clan may well miss Cheltenham.Value Is EverythingLet’s hope that some ill advised jockeyship (not from these particular jockeys) hasn’t “bottomed” any of the horses , as we have seen in the past
If PFN had managed to jettison Gavin from the operation prior to this race, would it have been Lorcan Williams in the saddle (Without wishing to denigrate him, surely not), or some special guest star ?
What was your opinion of Cobden on Mcfabulous GT? Was he “stupid”? Should he “understandably never ride a Grade race again”?
BUY THE SUN
What do you think was wrong with the McFabulous ride TTC?
What do you think Cobden should’ve done differently?
As far as I can see Cobden rode the horse in pretty much the same way he’d done previously with great success… And therefore rode how I’d expect.
Stormy Island possibly helped a little by getting an easier lead than probably would’ve happened had the other obvious prominent runner On The Blind Side not run very poorly. However, Brewinupastorm got to the winner in good time and Cobden was also close enough if good enough, albeit hampered slightly by Brewinupastorm’s fall.
Didn’t help Cobden getting behind the winner when they moved to the rail going to the last, but made no difference to the result in my opinion.Value Is EverythingGinge, your absolutely incorrect, its unquestionable that the worst ride in the race was blackmores, all she achieved was getting frodon beat, she forgot about the other 7 horses and frodon still beat her,
There is absolutely no doubting this whatsoever with your nonsense lol the gold cup winner couldnt complete 3m round kempton because of the ride…. Stop trying to claim sheehans ride was worse, its utter nonsense, have you been watching the race with your face covering over your eyes?
You’re thinking that Minella was in form at the time, ham.
We can see he wasn’t by taking a look at where / how less stamina laden horses finished.
Look at where Frodon finished.
Minella Indo is a 3m+ horse that has put up by some way his best performance at 3m2f110yrds.
Frodon is a 2 1/2 to 3 mile horse.
The two horses raced pretty much together, if anything Frodon just in front of Minella.
So if pace was the only reason for both finishing down the field I’d expect the test of stamina of an overly strong pace on that ground to suit Minella Indo much better than it would Frodon and yet Frost finished well ahead of Blackmore.
And as Glad’ pointed out to me too, Asterion (having his first start at 3 miles (and hasn’t looked crying out for the trip) wasn’t far behind Minella for much of the race… And yet he too got a hell of a long way further than Minella did.Therefore imo as well as encouraging an overly strong pace, Minella Indo can not have gone into the race in A1 condition. For whatever reason, may be didn’t act in cheek pieces, may be didn’t act on the course, may be he’s better left handed and / or on an undulating course, may be stable not firing on all cylinders. Looking at how Minella lost ground so quickly, appeared to me possibly amiss too. Most likely a combination of some of the above… In hindsight it’s obvious that there was more to his effort than just pace.
Also, of the whole field Minella was the stayer, the one that would be best suited by a strong pace to produce a thorough test of stamina. Therefore, Blackmore did the right thing in effectively urging Bryony to go a strong pace.
Blackmore’s only mistake was that STRONG pace was TOO strong. A misjudgement of pace alone – not a misjudgement of her horse.
Where as Sheehan knew he was on a horse that barely stayed 3 miles.
ie Saint Calvados’s best chance of winning was if it the pace was slow – to be a test of speed at the trip rather than stamina. Therefore should have known the pace was strong and already testing stamina at the 3 miles (on soft ground) more than the horse would like.
…And yet Sheehan increased the stamina test still further by increasing the pace still further.You also said in a previous post ham that you’d Quote: “much rather he did what he did, than sit out the back and just get found out anyway”. End Quote. Am afraid the sectionals I’ve provided (see page 3) prove that wrong. Yes, in most races it is best to “do what he did” but not when the pace is overly strong. Where the closing sectional of 17 seconds (and that’s the winner’s sectional not even Saint Calvados’s) is significantly slower than others. It proves Sheehan would’ve done better waiting for longer instead of putting up 13 and 14 second sectionals turning in.
Doing something Sheehan should have KNOWN was against the chances of his horse. Not just a misjudgement of pace but also (imo more importantly when judging these things) a Misjudgement of his horse. A horse he has ridden several times before and therefore should have known. Only “misjudgement” is too lesser word for it.
Value Is EverythingCare to expand on why do you think Blackmore was worse than Sheehan, ham?
Value Is EverythingGinger has provided the evidence of the clock.
Maybe we are making too much of this now. Sheehan rode a poorly judged race. That is all. It is nothing personal and it does not make him a bad person.
If Nicholls was not satisfied with the ride, he was entitled to tell the owners. Likewise, the owners were entitled to remove their horses from Nicholls if they wanted Sheehan to keep the ride.
Personally, I am not a great fan of owners retaining jockeys. It means a jockey has to keep several trainers happy and sooner or later one trainer is going to be dissatisfied and want to use their own preferred jockey.
It is well known that Richard Hughes lost the Juddmonte job because of a poor ride he gave to one of Stoute’s at Epsom. And I believe Paul Hanagan lost the Shadwell job because one of the trainers clearly had no confidence in him.
I read all posts on the thread TTC, do you?
ham has given his opinion, but has only written a few lines (in two posts) about why he has come to that conclusion.
I’ve spent time responding to ham’s comments, explaining why I don’t consider Blackmore’s ride worse
All I’ve done is ask if he’d “Care to expand on why he thinks Blackmore was worse than Sheehan”?Thought I’d been as polite as possible. Of course it is up to him whether he wants to expand more. It would just help me to understand ham’s opinion if he did.
…But at least ham writes an explanation – however small – not just one derisory line.
You weren’t in a good mood last night, please for your own benefit, calm down TTC.
Value Is Everything
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