July 23, 2007 at 14:15 #4703WallaceParticipant
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Florista gg was discussed on a thread here before it ran in a handicap at Ascot recently having only previously run in Uruguay. The question was raised how this horse could be allocated a handicap mark in this country. I have asked the question and apparently the BHB handicapper accepted an official mark of 90 allocated by the Emirates Racing Authority. The horse did not run in the UAE so how the handicapper in Dubai could come up with a figure is the next question!
Do you think if Sir Mark or Barney imported a horse from a far off country it would be allocated a mark here without having being assessed here?July 23, 2007 at 14:59 #108928davidbradyMember
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You couldn’t make it up – Irish-trained horses can’t run off their Irish mark in Britain but a horse with Uruguayan form only can run off a mark allocated by a UAE handicapper.July 23, 2007 at 16:54 #108947davidjohnsonMember
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I presume the horse was entered for a handicap at the UAE carnival earlier in the year, but that would only be a guess. The obvious problem is that the UAE handicapper would face the same problem as that of the BHB handicapper, i.e. there are virtually no formlines to judge whether the horse should be rated 90, 70 or 110.
Surely you are not advocating that Irish hurdlers should be allowed to compete from the same mark in the UK as they do in their own country.July 23, 2007 at 17:27 #108954Black Sam BellamyMember
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Wallace…it’s not clear what point you are actually trying to make with this thread.
Are you suggesting the horse was unfairly handicapped ? What qualification would you have put in place to allow the filly to be handicapped ? You could hardly have put the horse in a Maiden or a Conditions race as she’s already a Group 1 winner in Uruguay.
The horse came last and has been dropped three pounds as a consequence. I don’t see much wrong or am I missing the point ?July 23, 2007 at 18:34 #108968WallaceParticipant
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BSB, I’m not suggesting the horse was unfairly treat by the handicapper as I have no idea how good it is. I just find it very strange it has been allocated a handicap mark without previous runs in a country where the handicapper can have a guide to the level of the form. This looks even more odd when the horse did not even run in UAE.July 23, 2007 at 18:58 #108976seabirdParticipant
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Wasn’t it the situation at one time that a horse such as this would automatically carry top-weight of 9-7 or 10-0?July 24, 2007 at 08:46 #109037apracingParticipant
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So far as I know, the automatic top weight rule only applied to jump races.
Up until quite recently, any horse imported to run on the flat simply had to run three times to get mark. In the case of Florista GG, given her Group 1 victory, that would presumably have meant three runs in Group races.
At a lower level, they would have to run in conditions events. I can vaguely remember somebody importing a stayer a few years ago and running it in conditons races over 6F and 1M and I think that might have been one of the catalysts for a change to the system.
Whilst Florista GG wasn’t able to cope with a mark of 90, there have been examples of horses getting a very lenient starting mark and taking advantage. Check out the record of High Bray, who was given a mark of 50 on his German form and won four handicaps here in short order. He won the first from 6lbs out of the handicap and was well backed to do so, and the last from a mark of 78.
APJuly 24, 2007 at 10:13 #109046AdrianParticipant
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The rule is that any 3yo+ which is trained in GB, and which has run at least 3 times in a recognised country, will be qualified for handicaps as long as the handicapper is prepared to allot a rating.
In the case of Florista GG she’d done enough in Uruguay for Melvin Day – the UAE handicapper – to give her a rating in case she ran in a Dubai handicap. It was pretty straightforward, therefore, for our handicappers to trust Melvin’s ground work and allot the same rating.
If she’d been trained by a non British trainer then the handicapper would only have given her a rating if it had been 90 or more. This stops foreign trained horses with low ratings (ie pacemakers) from participating in our handicaps.
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