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July 3, 2006 at 12:56 #73319
One of the arguments used against the proposed 90 day (or greater) detention for terror suspects was that if found to be innocent they might lose their livelihood, ot see it impacted to a significant degree…. and indeed, later succeed with a massive claim against the authorities.
You can of course take a view that "If the police have good grounds for suspicion then it’s probably OK to lock them up (or in this case, suspend them)"….but I’m not sure that I have such confidence in the police these days. I do agree that after the previous debacles with regard to racing they surely have to have improved… but then again, you might have expected that after they shot J-C De Menezes they wouldn’t make another screw up…?
I guess everyone calling for Fallon to be banned for life should be happen to be found guilty would have applied the same logic to Paulo Rossi in 1982!
J
July 3, 2006 at 12:58 #73320Stevie, I dont like the example of the Paedos with children. Thats a different sitation and certainly a more ugly one.
It’s a well-known and recent example of people being denied the right to go back to a particular form of employment after serving a sentence.
Because racing is so heavily reliant on income from betting, it couldn’t allow a jockey back who had been convicted of throwing races.
My point is that there will be no legal obligation to allow fallon back in the saddle.
Steve<br>
July 3, 2006 at 13:02 #73321John
If hes found guilty, what would you do then?
July 3, 2006 at 13:04 #73322Fallon has the backing of John Magnier/Coolmore, that means he will have the best lawyer money can buy, how many Trainers will speak out in his defence….most of them! on a lighter note…punters wearing "Fallon is Innocent" T shirts ;)
July 3, 2006 at 13:09 #73323Quote: from john2345 on 1:56 pm on July 3, 2006[br]I guess everyone calling for Fallon to be banned for life should be happen to be found guilty would have applied the same logic to Paulo Rossi in 1982!
Yes Rossi should have been banned for life in 1982. Just like the German referee was recently.
July 3, 2006 at 13:14 #73324Quote: from clivex on 2:02 pm on July 3, 2006[br]John
If hes found guilty, what would you do then?
<br>I’ll wait and see what the evidence is, and what precisely he’s found guilty (if he is so found) of before offering a reply on the basis that the punishment should fit the crime
Let me observe, however, that I haven’t noticed too many punters over the past five+ years walking round cursing Fallon for consistently losing them money – indeed, quite the opposite! That doesn’t mean he’s innocent of course….
Equally I haven’t noticed any fall off in public gambles on his horses in the major races during the two years the investigation has been on-going. Indeed, perhaps you backed a few of his winners yourself…. or did you stop backing KF’s horses the moment he was first visited by the law…??
J
July 3, 2006 at 13:19 #73325Latest is that Karl Burke was released without charge.
The HRA are convening a hearing tomorrow to hear representations from those concerned before making a decision as to whether they be allowed to ride in the UK.
Irish racing is rallying around Fallon where he will be allowed to ride.This might reinforce the point made by a poster about the Irish view of British justice.
All I can say is that if I was accused of criminal charges directly relating to my employment then I would be suspended from work forthwith
July 3, 2006 at 13:32 #73326All I can say is that if I was accused of criminal charges directly relating to my employment then I would be suspended from work forthwith
Probably on full pay…. ?
July 3, 2006 at 13:54 #73327Quote: from john2345 on 2:32 pm on July 3, 2006[br]
All I can say is that if I was accused of criminal charges directly relating to my employment then I would be suspended from work forthwith
Probably on full pay…. ?
True enough in my case John though maintaining public confidence is critical to my employer and I am bound by additional restrictions on my private life.<br>Surely Cormack’s point is well made.<br>e.g. would you feel confident in handing your money over to a bank cashier charged with theft at work? Think not.<br>If suspended and subsequently cleared, those concerned could presumably seek damages from the Police/Crown Prosecution Service/HRA if found to have been maliciously prosecuted
July 3, 2006 at 14:05 #73328would you feel confident in handing your money over to a bank cashier charged with theft at work? Think not.
I don’t disagree with that sentiment…but my earlier post asked if the betting public appeared to have lost confidence in KF during the two years this investigation has been running…. and based on the level of market support for some of his rides during that period the answer would likely be "They don’t appear to have".
Didn’t stop me backing Yeats, Oratorio, Footsteps, Mullins Bay….and a few KF losers as well! And I certainly wasn’t the only one backing Dylan Thomas yesterday. (By the way, I DO back horses ridden by other jockeys too!)
<br>J<br>
July 3, 2006 at 14:05 #73329I suspect some jockeys get involved with unscrupulous people early on in their career. Once ‘in’ how do they get ‘out’?
Hopefully, the racing authorities will take a long hard look at what can be done to protect youngsters coming into the sport. This will help help prevent corruption from continuing.
Suspension from racing before the trial is difficult but an insurance scheme or jockey fund could be set up to provide them with an income whilst waiting.
If these jockeys are found guilty then surely a ban of around 2 years and no income from racing would send a stong enough message?
July 3, 2006 at 14:22 #73330Let me observe, however, that I haven’t noticed too many punters over the past five+ years walking round cursing Fallon for consistently losing them money – indeed, quite the opposite!
What the hell has that got to do with it?
July 3, 2006 at 14:26 #73331Just an observation that if he was "riding to lose rather than to win" you might expect more obvious signs of an army of disgruntled punters bemoaning his performances…. a "mere observation", not a "statement of proof of innocence or otherwise"…
J
July 3, 2006 at 14:29 #73332It wouldnt matter if not one punter had spotted it. If he threw a race, then thats it as far as i concerned :angry:
July 3, 2006 at 14:56 #73333Nor1 – great idea.
How about this – a condition of a jockey being awarded a license should be that they are suspended immediately if charged with any criminal offence which is directly related to their occupation. They should be suspended on full pay until the outcome and if found guilty should have to return the monies paid while suspended. The level of ‘pay’ during this period could be calculated on the level of income declared for tax purposes in the previous year (which might be an interesting exercise in itself).
The whole thing could be funded by a levy placed on punters using betting exchanges.
Just joking (about the last bit)!
July 3, 2006 at 15:00 #73334John,
since these charges have been hanging over him and since he moved back to Ireland it is true to say that gripes about perceived dodgy riding performances by him have pretty much ceased.
However, prior to that, and during the period under investigation, there was no end of speculation as to what a dodgepot he was. Including from me.
It could be hypothesised that he cleaned up his act as a direct result of the investigations?
July 3, 2006 at 15:05 #73335Guess I’d be pretty safe laying againsty KF being "BBC Sport Personality of the Year 2006"…??
J
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