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This is why I am not fond of the jumps season and things are happening and its barely even started, I recall one horse Monday called Chord and his last 2 runs have been beaten 80 lengths then PU but wins well at 22/1 next time out.
The jumps horses have no value and there used as valueless comodities for betting perspectives bar the top 5 or 6 in the sport like Kauto Star, Denman…
Mr Wilson
I haven’t posted in ages, I tend to just be a browser but your remarks have stirred me into action!
May I point out that Chord won at Plumpton on Monday after having only his second round back after being tubed, he’d been backed a few times with Simon Earle and wasn’t backed at all on Monday, so if your in anyway implying that anything untoward had been going on, I would suggest your rather wide of the mark.
As for virtually every national hunt horse having no value, well I’m not even going there………….
But anyway who uses the word "commodity" as you did, is I would suggest not a true fan of the sport. Ever been to a point to point? If you had you would see they are treated as anything but commodities.
I was at Plumpton and you couldn’t find a much weaker race for a chasing debut if you tried.
And with a few failing to complete the course Chord didn’t have to run anywhere near his best (had some decent form for the Mccain’s without winning).
The race that Chord ran in at Towcester the other day is interesting as Curragh Dancer & Dancing Daffodil who also were well beat finished 1st and 3rd respectively in a race at Fontwell today
Might have been a fair race for the grade.- Total Posts 17716
Just watched the race there, didnt look good but I think we all just have to accept that this is part of racing.
There was an incident today and there will be another this week, and the next, and the next.
I guess its a bit like two footed nasty tackles in football, they can try encourage fair play etc but at the end of the day there will always be incidents. I think the main problem is when someone does that in football they 90% of the time get sent off, in horse racing a lot of incidents go unpunished.
Im sorry to constantly make comparisons with other sports like football but racing for change want horse racing to be up there with all top sports so therefore I feel we should compare.
Anyway its part and parcel of horse racing whether we like it or not. Stewarding has been and is a bit of a joke in horse racing, a negative in a sport with a lot more possitives.
Just watched the race there, didnt look good but I think we all just have to accept that this is part of racing.
There was an incident today and there will be another this week, and the next, and the next.
I guess its a bit like two footed nasty tackles in football, they can try encourage fair play etc but at the end of the day there will always be incidents. I think the main problem is when someone does that in football they 90% of the time get sent off, in horse racing a lot of incidents go unpunished.
Im sorry to constantly make comparisons with other sports like football but racing for change want horse racing to be up there with all top sports so therefore I feel we should compare.
Anyway its part and parcel of horse racing whether we like it or not. Stewarding has been and is a bit of a joke in horse racing, a negative in a sport with a lot more possitives.
No Joncol "non trying" is NOT part of racing and it can NEVER be acceptable. I’m absolutely gobsmacked that you obviously disagree.
Everybody makes errors, people work the system, fine (to a large extent) but every horse in every race has to be trying to win that race whether its ideal conditions or a totally inadequate test, whatever when a horse is in a race the jockey has to be doing everything he can to get that horse to achieve its optimum position.
It isn’t even debatable. There are endless reasons why you cannot allow blatant non trying which I’m not even going to bother to go over because frankly if you don’t know then you shouldn’t be involved in the sport at all.
to be fair to Jamie Goldstein, he has come on ATR and explained to Chappers that the horse is a bleeder. If he had put him under pressure earlier, horse would not have got home, hence trying to nurse him as best he could.
Think even Chappers accepted that explanation.
Would what obviously help in these situations is more awareness / information about the condition of horses BEFORE races, and not afterwards.
The majority of horses in training have problems of some type, not all of these need to be reported. But where problems are clearly going to affect the running and riding of a horse, surely in horseracing’s general interests that these be made publicly available – otherwise get threads like these denigrating reputation of jockey, trainer, connections etc when in fact nothing untoward has taken place at all.
No disrespect Pedrobob buy that was a non-trier IMO.
Nothing to do with the horses weakness.
If you look at Moonwolf’s form, in this country at least, he has been ridden identically in 2 starts on the flat and 3 starts over jumps.
Each time he has been held up before making progress, and on the first 3 starts, he made progress before weakening badly (supporting the jock’s comments about him being a bleeder)
As Jamie Goldstein said yesterday, his previous win dropped into his lap when the pair in front of him fell, and the horse was then all out to score in a bad race otherwise.
Yesterday was a better race, and he has actually run to the very pound with Balustrade who also ran in both races (beat it 11+ lengths last time at levels and 5 lengths yesterday conceding 7lbs).
I wasn’t sure when the ride was first highlighted yesterday on ATR, but having reviewed the horse’s form, listened to the jocks explanation, it seems perfectly plausible and understandable doesn’t it? A very fragile horse was already giving everything it could, and subjecting it to use of the whip and putting under severe pressure would only result in it bleeding and weakening badly as it has done before. As Goldstein said, it’s a bridle horse, and can only be ridden that way (cue Harchibald)
to be fair to Jamie Goldstein, he has come on ATR and explained to Chappers that the horse is a bleeder. If he had put him under pressure earlier, horse would not have got home, hence trying to nurse him as best he could.
GENERAL DUTIES OF RIDERS
(D)30 to (D)57.
45. RIDING TO ACHIEVE THE BEST POSSIBLE PLACING.
45.1 A rider must.
45.1.1 ride his horse throuhout the race in such a way that he can be seen to have made a genuine attempt to obtain from his horse timely,real andSubstantial
efforts to achieve the best possible placing!
If the horse cant be put under pressure for fear of bleeding then it shouldn"t be allowed to race!Its not acceptable for such horses to be allowed to saunter around a race track and win only when those in front of it fall! It was a bleeder all right a bleeding Non Trier! Thats defineately 2 that have "Got through the net" in the past week! It just shows if its not a Casela Park like incident nothing gets done!
Harchibald wasn"t a bleeder! A frustrating b*gger though!
I must say I have no problem at all with the way Moonwolf was ridden – he’s certainly run a very similar race to his previous one, he certainly wasn’t laid to lose, and he certainly wasn’t ridden with a view to his handicap mark. I’m not a fan of Jamie Goldstein as a rule, but backers of the West/Goldstein team are more guaranteed of a run for their money that those who follow, let’s say, Jonjo’s runners for J P McManus in similar races.
Rory,
Golan Way
is a front runner,it wouldn"t look good if he was ridden less positively!
I’m not a fan of Jamie Goldstein as a rule, but backers of the West/Goldstein team are more guaranteed of a run for their money
Quite. Moreover, given that Sheena’s gains over jumps have owed much to her ability to find the right (for which read: ordinary) southern and Midlands novice hurdles such as yesterday’s, and that the yard’s representatives in that sphere are in pretty tidy form at present, I can’t quite imagine what motives there would be for her and Jamie Goldstein to try to pull a fast one all of a sudden.
Be that all as it may. The BHA’s "Why They Ran Badly" site (http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resou … nbadly.asp) has been updated now to include all the H14s from yesterday’s race meetings, from which the following;
"Fontwell, 20 October 2010
Miss S West, the trainer of MOONWOLF (NZ), reported that the gelding was scoped post race and showed signs of having bled."
No indication from the site as to whether the vet took a look, as (s)he had with a wounded animal at Worcester the same day, but then I don’t know how assiduously subsequent veterinary checks are reported.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
"Fontwell, 20 October 2010
Miss S West, the trainer of MOONWOLF (NZ), reported that the gelding was scoped post race and showed signs of having bled."
No indication from the site as to whether the vet took a look, as (s)he had with a wounded animal at Worcester the same day, but then I don’t know how assiduously subsequent veterinary checks are reported.
A scope taken on the day of race, after the race, is done by the Racecourse Veterinary Surgeon and that was confirmed by our Veterinary Office.
Noted with thanks, Paul.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
No problem Jeremy. Happened to a horse I owned a small share in, so having decided immediately post-race to retire him, it gave us faint hope. Four months bills later, he was off to a PTP yard…!
Moonwolf opened at 13/2 and in three stages was backed into 5/1. I had X pounds at 6/1 as I did not fancy the Hobbs favourite at all – a hearty, but paceless plodder.
In the recently critical five minutes before the off, Moonwolf boomeranged to 15/2 before settling at 7/1, perhaps in the face for the support for the David Evans gamble. Someone was willing to lay the horse.
Had I not taken a price, I would have cancelled the bet. In my opinion, boomerangs hardly ever win horse races nowadays.
Throughout the race, Moonwolf travelled best of all. If it wasn’t for the boomerang (see "Gamble Landed" thread), I would have been counting my money. I don’t think I’ve seen a better traveller this week.
Three fences out, The Hobbs horse was being galvanised by Tom O Brien and Moonwolf still hadn’t moved. Two fences out, Moonwolf started to creep into it on the inside, still travelling best of all. O’Brien is really shifting now, riding vigorously, as if frightened of something coming from behind. Yet despite this – and surely Goldstein could see it unravelling before his eyes, he
still
isn’t making substantial effort.
Coming up to the final fence – and Fontwell isn’t a Uttoxeter style finish by any means, Goldstein
STILL
didn’t ask his horse to go and win his race – EVEN when the Hobbs favourite was flat out; there for the taking.
Okay, I’ll accept the scope etc, and I’ll accept Jeremy’s support of Miss West, but I cannot believe that anyone would be happy with that ride. And btw, I’ve complained about only two rides in the five years since I’ve been a member here and thought long and hard before contributing. That wasn’t good.
Connections new before the race that Moonwolf was a bleeder! Jamies been pushed to admit after the race that he was never going to use "Substantial" effort to gain the best possible placing just in case the horse burst,so in effect is admitting he wasn"t trying! The guy confesses to lack of effort and still doesn"t even get one wrist slapped! Those punters who backed him e/w at 7/1 have been robbed of their returns as even the BHA know he should have finished at least 3rd! Where does it say in the race card "Beware all those who want to back Moonwolf! Because he is a bleeder he will be allowed to nonchalantly waltz around the race course in his own time,his jockey as you will notice will give him no assisstance from the saddle at the business end and even though our rules clearly state that a jockey must be seen to use SUBSTANTIAL effort to gain the best possible placing,we will turn a blind eye to this horses performance so be advised to keep your money in your pocket!" Hypocrites!
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