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  • #18747
    Avatar photorobnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7575

    With this year’s renewal coming up I thought it might be a good opportunity to blow the trumpet for one of Scotland’s biggest prizes.

    Last year’s renewal had 15 runners of which 13 have subsequently won. The winner Harris Tweed won two Listed races and was Group 3 placed, the third Corsica won a Group 3 then finished a close third in the St Leger. Ten others have won handicaps since, though a couple did have to wait until first outing this season and the second Sing Sweetly could only land a maiden! Even the last finisher, Wild Rose, won twice last August at decent prices. The only ones who have failed to win are 11th placed Gomrath and 14th placed Belopalula, the latter having moved to France and only raced twice since anyway.

    Mark Johnston dominates this year’s renewal with 7 of the top 9 in the weights, but there are plenty of promising performers from other stables lower down the ratings.

    My brother has chosen this Saturday to get married, and it’s on the south coast at Christchurch, so I’ll have to pick up a replay on net some time. However, I’ll be keeping an eye out for the runners in this race, because if it proves half as good as last year it will be a decent contest.

    Rob

    #358091
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9232

    13 of the 15 subsequently won. That’s an impressive stat.

    Musselburgh deserve to put on a quality prize as they’ve done some great things with that racecourse over the last ten/fifteen years.

    #358116
    Avatar photoCarryOnKatie
    Participant
    • Total Posts 592

    Agree, impressive stats and well done for Musselburgh who continually strive to improve their racing program, unlike other courses who seem content to continue with wall-to-wall minimum value low grade racing.

    Rob, the wedding is not at Highcliffe Castle is it (about 2miles from Christchurch? Thats where my wife and I got married.

    #358135
    AmcF
    Member
    • Total Posts 9

    Completely agree that last years renewal was a quality affair. It looks as if this year will be equally competitive, which is a shame for me as I had marked Ittirad down as a horse to follow after his York effort; hopefully the price will compensate. Whoever wins this on saturday will need to have plenty in hand over the handicapper,looks as if lots of unexposed horses will be running.

    #358826
    sandwith100
    Member
    • Total Posts 47

    An £80,000 race and once again the Southern trainers cant be bothered. If it werent for Mark Johnston and Fahey this would have ended up like a class 4 handicap !!
    It really gets me annoyed when trainers bleet on about the types of races and prize money and the when a track puts on quality races the fields end up being rubbish. This happens regularly in the North over both jumps and flat.

    #361224
    Avatar photorobnorth
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    • Total Posts 7575

    The form got a good boost with the third and first at Musselburgh finishing first and third respectively in the Queen’s Vase. Might be worth keeping an eye out for those down the field at Musselburgh.

    That makes two winners at Royal Ascot from that Musselburgh meeting after Frederick Engels’s win earlier in the week. That’s added to two Cheltenham Festival winners who had their prep on ‘The Links’.

    Burning Thread for the Wokingham?

    Rob

    #361272
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9232

    Hamilton has been represented in the Ascot winner’s enclosure as well this week. Both courses deserve good quality patronage.

    #361463
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9232

    Last year’s Edinburgh Cup now responsible for a Group 2 runner-up.

    What a great run by Harris Tweed, on ethat may yet turn out to be even better than it looked.

    #361548
    Avatar photorobnorth
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    • Total Posts 7575

    Moving slightly sideways, Degas Art put up a fair effort in the Queen Alexandra Stakes. Every chance two out but ran out of puff and faded to seventh. Not bad for one bought out of a Hexham selling hurdle a couple of runs back, and winner of a warm up hurdle at Perth.

    Some may say the closing contest is an anachronism, but it harks back to the sport’s roots and long may it continue.

    Rob

    #361849
    Avatar photograysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6966

    Well said, Rob – my favourite contest of the Royal meeting by some margin, and a solid performance by a horse in Degas Art racing beyond his optimum trip over jumps, never mind on the level.

    Already looking a useful claim by Lucinda Russell, and great to see his confidence returning of late after a couple of dreadful falls in the last couple of years.

    gc

    Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #361882
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3778

    GC,

    Plenty of horses from the past of the Queen Alexandra that were best at shorter trips over hurdles, all the way back to Brown Jack.

    I’d put recent winners Bergo and Caracciola as essentially two milers over obstacles, although the former has won over 2m 5f.

    And Heighlin was placed in the QA, as well as winning the Ascot Stakes, the Goodwood Stakes and a Goodwood Cup when that was run over 2m 5f – but he was never as good beyond 2M over hurdles.

    It’s one of the great puzzles about the whole issue of stamina, and one about which I’ve never found a satisfactory answer.

    AP

    #361900
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9232

    The reasons for this which spring to mind are –

    Ground usually softer over hurdles placing more of a premium on stamina than the flat

    Race pace being somehow ‘steadier’ on the flat (that doesn’t sound true though)

    The act of jumping somehow saps strength/stamina reserves

    Not sure if any of those stack up as satisfactory explanations though. My money would be on ground conditions but I’m sure a few in AP’s list had goes over hurdles on good or firmer and came up short also.

    Funnily enough – just been reading an old Smart-Sig article of yours AP, on the subject of separating races into two separate ‘races’ for analysis purposes when there may be a draw bias. Interesting stuff.

    #361911
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3778

    Cormack,

    Of your possible explanations, the one I prefer is that the effort used up by the act of jumping is what reduces the optimum distance for the horse. The problem with that as an answer is that it’s just as easy to come up with examples of horses that stayed much further over obstacles than their flat form would have led you to expect. Red Rum of course being the prime example!

    AP

    #361920
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9232

    Aye – but then again Red Rum was an exception to a few rules.

    Just goes to show how little we still know about horses, as any trainer would no doubt concur.

    #361956
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    GC,

    Plenty of horses from the past of the Queen Alexandra that were best at shorter trips over hurdles, all the way back to Brown Jack.

    I’d put recent winners Bergo and Caracciola as essentially two milers over obstacles, although the former has won over 2m 5f.

    And Heighlin was placed in the QA, as well as winning the Ascot Stakes, the Goodwood Stakes and a Goodwood Cup when that was run over 2m 5f – but he was never as good beyond 2M over hurdles.

    It’s one of the great puzzles about the whole issue of stamina, and one about which I’ve never found a satisfactory answer.

    AP

    I’ve found it a reliable rule of thumb that horses generally stay further over hurdles than they do on the flat, and further over fences than over hurdles. I’ve put this down to the obstacles in NH racing breaking up the pace, so races are actually less of a test of stamina (Check standard times for similar distance flat v hurdles on the same course).
    Of course, you’re always going to get the odd Royal Gait, but that’s down to clear class superiority stepping down from flat to NH, rather than any quirk in staying power, and if horses like him hung around long enough, they’d almost invariably be better over further.
    The Queen Alexander wouldn’t be the best race to judge anything on though, as it so far in excess of most flat race distances that there’s probably never a true pace anyway.

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