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oh come on Friggo. "It is that kind of attitude that has alienated racing to the general public in the first instance?" It is the fact it was brought to the public’s attention that will alienate people. All people on the outside will take out of this is that all Jockeys are crooks/racing is crooked….it goes with the territory…….Lester went to jail for tax evation. The biggest name in the history of racing for Pete’s sake.
The public won’t all of a sudden think racing is straight because they put a few Jockeys in jail. People just aren’t like that. They will only take the bad out of it and the more you involve outside bodies the worse it will get.
The game or peoples attitudes towards it will nevr change. You either love it despite all it’s pitfalls or you hate it.
I love the game and want to see the best for it……….not a bunch of would be James Bonds with no clue about the sport tearinig it apart in public.
Honestly! "some times you people just don’t bloody think"
PS if you cared one hoot about racing you would be embracing the verdict and shouting it from the rooftops. Instead you are saying lets bring it all back up again and further tar the name of racing.
BTW Friggo if you are around before the end of the day go to http://www.sportinglife.com I see they published a picture of you and I on the front page.
If you are in any doubt which one is me… I’m on the right….. which sums up your chances…you may rough me up a little mate but I’ll beat you on points at the end of the day
Fist of Fury 2k8 your picture is of a thoroughly corrupt sport which does not deserve to survive.
I see a great sport, which is dodgy in parts, and support the authority’s efforts to clean it up as much as practicable. Times change, and what may have been allowed to go on in the past is not going to survive the scrutiny even sport receives in this century. Whatever you say.
I just wonder how many of you guys actually go racing on a regular basis or know anyone closely associated with the sport.
I lived and breathed racing for over 30 years. Owned horses rode horses flippin slept with them. I went racing at leat 4 times a week between 1990 and 2000 during the NH season I supported racing did you?
Don’t preach to me about the corrupt sport. The sport is only as corrupt as people like you make it with your do good attitudes.
The sport is no where near as bad as you guys are making out with your cries of "Justice Must be Done"
I spoke about hundreds would have to be arrested. I meant for minor infringements of antiquated rules that realsitically by people you would have to cut out the tongues out of to impliment.
Get a life and get in touch with reality there are some bad elements in racing like in any sport. If this was Mr. Needle you were having a go at I would back you up to the hilt but not when it concerns heresay and witchunters out to make a name for themselves. These sort of cases belong inside racing not outside.
You will never change the sport which will be here long after you are dead and gone…..keeep it in line on the same level? perhaps and hopefully……but it survived Piggot, it survied Gay Futureetc and it will survive you lot of stuck up do gooders as well Thankfully.
To your knees, members of TRF, for we are blessed to be in the presence of the almighty Fist of Fury 2k8 (though bowing anywhere near him may prove hazardous to your health as he’s already admitted to sleeping with horses, there’s no telling what he might do).
Whilst I was at university in Bristol, with easy access to Chepstow, Cheltenham, Exeter, Taunton, Newbury etc. I’d sometimes go racing 5, 6 or even 7 days a week (student loans are a marvellous thing). So should you now be cowering at my feet, overshadowed by the wealth of racing knowledge I must possess?
TRF used to be a place where people could freely exchange their opinions and, no matter how strongly they may feel about something, could at least consider the points of view of other people. It seems to have descended into a battle of egos, one man (or woman) striving to elevate themselves based on a ridiculous preconception that they are in fact a racing god.
Do me a favour, FOF, just leave the ‘holier than thou’ nonsense at the door and just post what you think. I couldn’t give a Leprechaun’s testicle if you’re an owner, trainer, jockey or Shergar re-incarnated, there’s no place for the attitude you seem to possess (in abundance).
Would certainly guarantee media interest if they pursued the registered owner reported to contact Fallon every day for tips – one Michael Owen!
I would have thought a quiet word as to future conduct is all that’s needed given the fact that any investigation would be unlikely to result in a ban longer than that already served.
Personally, I reckon it would be better if the authorities removed the anomaly in the rules that makes it wrong for Fallon to exchange text messages with a footballer, but OK for him to write a newspaper column, Ok to talk to corporate guests at the racecourse, OK to give interviews on TV pre race.
AP
I have voted yes for an enquiry as the authorities cannot ignore what came to light in the court case.
It would be a crass dereliction of duty if the BHA did not hold an enquiry and the credibility of racing would sink even further.
To those who argue that Fallon has already served a ban – he has only served a ban in the UK and some other jurisdictions, he has still been able to ride in Ireland and France for example. OK he has lost potential UK earnings, however he took the decision to take out his licence in Ireland, so in the eyes of the British authorities he is a foreign rider anyway.
Should the BHA find him in breach of the rules any ban imposed would apply worldwide, a punishment he has not faced in the past 18 months.
In the case of Lynch and Williams, even though they were banned from riding, they were paid compensation for loss of earnings, so it could be argued that although they were banned in name they were not penalised in the same way as they would have been had they faced a “normalâ€
Fist of Fury:
The game or peoples attitudes towards it will nevr change. You either love it despite all it’s pitfalls or you hate it.
I don’t do unconditional love and seldom do unconditional hate. Will you let me be in the "mostly love it but with strong reservations in a few areas" category, please?
The main feature of this case is that it again highlights the weaknesses of the CPS. They are all right at sorting out charges against minor thieves and those who have infringed the motoring laws but out of their depth with cases like this.
The problem is that the CPS are reactive rather than pro active: they let the police investigate for ages and then present them with a bundle of evidence which they then examine and decide whether it contains enough to warrant prosecution. (So they, and not the racing authorities and police, are SOLELY responsible for that decision, and indeed for how the case was then conducted.)
What was needed here was the case to have been handed over early to the Serious Fraud Office, who work in a quite different way. They work actively with the police throughout, advising on the kind of of evidence that will be necesssary if the allegations being examined are to have any chance of leading to conviction – ie hard evidence of monetary links that seem, prima facie, to warrant concern. Without those, other evidence is flimsy in the extreme – was this horse pulled, or did it run out of steam/room? Most times there will be different views among observers and no chance whatsoever of proving pulling to the level required in criminal matters – these days the jury is asked "are you sure" the offence was committed, not even "are you convinced beyond reasonable doubt".
The SFO has had its share of disasters and, as we have seen with the investigation that was upsetting the Saudis and Tony Blair it, like the CPS, is susceptible to political intervention. But these days it is a great deal more competent than the CPS with cases like this and had it been brought it two years ago to work alongside the City of London police it is a safe bet that either there would have been no court case, or a far stronger one.
As has been said, the defendants are now cleared of the charges and it would invite legal action to suggest differently. But that does not mean that among the material (presented in court or not) there may not be good evidence of either other crimes or breaches of racing rules. Equally, of course, there may not be. But if there is, it will be for the CPS and racing authorities respectively to consider it, bearing in mind what has happened. In other words, and purely hypothetically, if there was evidence against anyone of a relatively minor breach of the rules of racing – the sort of thing that might lead to a short or medium term suspension – it would now be disproportionate to take it further.
If I were Fallon I’d be looking for compensation for loss of earnings from whoever brought the case to court.
FoF wrote, “I know at least 2 Jockeys who were banned for crimes not commited.”
Forgive me for being stupid, but why did they get banned then? And did these jockeys appeal against the ban if they didn’t commit anything?
Are there any news stories to back up your claims, or should we believe this with as much confidence as you knew that Katchit was wrong 3 hours before the race because the ‘dogs were barking about it’. Just a shame those dogs didn’t tell Alan King and all the professional punters who backed it down to a short priced favourite.
Mike
Would certainly guarantee media interest if they pursued the registered owner reported to contact Fallon every day for tips – one Michael Owen!
I would have thought a quiet word as to future conduct is all that’s needed given the fact that any investigation would be unlikely to result in a ban longer than that already served.
Personally, I reckon it would be better if the authorities removed the anomaly in the rules that makes it wrong for Fallon to exchange text messages with a footballer, but OK for him to write a newspaper column, Ok to talk to corporate guests at the racecourse, OK to give interviews on TV pre race.
AP
AP no doubt if you came up with a workable system which has the support of the industry, discourages race fixing and provides evidence for disciplinary action purposes the BHA will be pleased to hear from you.
Despite FoF’s rants the pressure for cleaning up the sport is coming from the public (punters) and the media. Keeping it in-house with a quiet word in the ear is the way it was done by the aristocrats who ran racing in a past age. It is not an option anymore.
Many sports seem to be struggling with these sorts of issues – Athletics and Cycling with performance enhancing drugs, Cricket and Football with match fixing. I think sport in general struggles to find the right response in terms of disciplinary action or prosecution, and effective controls which are not draconian.
oh come on Friggo. "It is that kind of attitude that has alienated racing to the general public in the first instance?" It is the fact it was brought to the public’s attention that will alienate people. All people on the outside will take out of this is that all Jockeys are crooks/racing is crooked….it goes with the territory
I have no doubt that public exposure of the misdemeanors of racing’s great and good will damage the sport short term, but allowing racing to wholly govern itself would simply allow the corruption that already exists to spread through the sport like a cancer, and then it really would be in the apocalyptic state that you and some others predict.
PS if you cared one hoot about racing you would be embracing the verdict and shouting it from the rooftops. Instead you are saying lets bring it all back up again and further tar the name of racing.
Just because I want a man punished for breaking the rules means I couldn’t care less about racing?
I care deeply about racing, and I want the public image of the sport to be as clean as possible. Of course just slapping a ban on a few jockeys will not end things, but if an example is made of those involved in this case, it could act as a deterrent for others thinking of pulling the wool over people’s eyes in future.
If racing exists purely to look after it’s own, it’s never going to attract new audiences and will suffer accordingly.BTW Friggo if you are around before the end of the day go to http://www.sportinglife.com I see they published a picture of you and I on the front page.
If you are in any doubt which one is me… I’m on the right….. which sums up your chances…you may rough me up a little mate but I’ll beat you on points at the end of the day
Very good. Funny you should say that, I’ve been wanting Hatton to give that mouthy b@st@rd a good hiding for months!
The case demonstrated to me how ridiculous and unworkable the new rules on insider information are. In my view there is nothing wrong with a jockey or trainer expressing his opinion on a horse’s chance to whoever he likes as long as he is not offering to affect that chance negatively for reward.
Now that criminal proceedings have been completed , of course internal disciplinary action should be taken.
Evidence given during the trial revealed a cavalier contempt for rules and regulations on use of unregistered phones to pass information to betting syndicates, jockeys betting and associating with disqualified persons.
Obviously any penalty should take account of the period the jockeys were sidelined from riding.
Fallon has a particular problem anyway should his B sample confirm the presence of cocaine. Precedent was the case of Dean Gallagher who got an 18 month ban from the French for a second drug offence.
Incidentally is there a gap in drug testing procedures outside of France? They seem able to detect offenders whereas the rest of Europe doesn’t. UK seems to confine itself to the breathyliser!Now that criminal proceedings have been completed , of course internal disciplinary action should be taken
Lingfield I thought you were referring to the city of london police and Paul Scotney all of whom had selectve memory loss when it suited them in the witness box. Mark Manning was a disgrace to the police force. Every time he was in the box he gave different evidence and claimed privelige over his notebook. Eventually the notebook was disclosed after consultations with the DPP and the notebook contradicted what he said. There was laughter in court during his cross examination.He was asked who advised him about privelige and he named the junior prosecutor. Jonathan Caplan QC had to stand up and contradict him and say it was he that advised him on privelige. I think Caplan feels he has been stitched up by the police with their economy on the truth and he has been made to look foolish. In fairness to Caplan he did shake hands and congratulate all the defendants at the end of the trial.
Manning has been offered a job with the BHA. Cosy job for retirement after serving the force so well for 30 years.
If there was a conspiracy in this case it was between the Jockey Club.Police and CPS. The total lack of disclosure, examples are the funding of the trial, the burying of Jim McGraths evidence.
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