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The February 2nd meeting is a new fixture (clashes with Wetherby ffs) but the Mansion House Chase (often a weak race) is missing from the Yorkshire Chase meeting the previous weekend so it would appear the new 100K race is a replacement for it.
Noted – thanks for that, Drone. And yes, really brainless programming to have the two quite close together and topographically not dissimilar Yorkshire jumps tracks in operation on the same day. Notwithstanding the likely different races on offer at each (Wetherby usually have a spanking good hunters’ chase on that card, for example), what makes Donny think a goodly chunk of its likely audience won’t be a few miles further up the A1(M) instead that day?
Dear old Green Green Desert, what entertainment he provided.
Oh yesh. I only wish I could remember where I left the tape of a pitifully poor 2m Ayr chase on Scottish National day, where he took on the collective might of Oscail An Doras, Blazing Dawn and – oh yes – Monaughty Man (all many stones out of the weights), and didn’t win half as handsomely as he should have. Woof, and indeed, woof.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The Williamhill.com Chase? Nice original name for a 100k race
A lot better than the ‘Madge Oldroyd is 50 today Selling Hcap’
Whatever happened to the memorable names for races? I’m really looking forward to The Williamhill.com Chase, not.Too much of an obsession from older members of the racing community with "great weight carrying performances" concentrate on seeing the best take on the best at level weights rather than Arkle giving away 2 stone to the milkmans horse in the Whitbread
They don’t have to enter handicaps if they don’t want to. My argument is that at this point in the season, a 2 mile handicap is more likely to produce an exciting, competitive race than a level weights contest- there’s surely more logic in a bookie chucking money at a handicap than at the likes of the Game Spirit, and the extra cash should be the incentive for the good horses to give the weight away.
I’m also a bit miffed at being lumped in as one of the "older members of the racing community". In racing terms, I’m barely out of nappies!
Apologies for lumping you in with the older members. I guess I mean those who look back at Arkle and go "what a great performance in the Irish National" when we all know there were fewer horses, racing wasn’t as competitive etc.
I agree the VC should be a handicap but it should be for handicappers and not for the Championship horses.
There would be uproar if the Hennessy were changed to a 3m Gr1 and I don’t see the need for another 2m Gr1 race at that time of year.
Wasn’t as competitive Irish Stamp???..you must be kidding……..only time that happened was when Arkle was running and trainers knew it was a waste of time taking him on..
Arkle, Mill House, Bonne Notte, Basnett Flying Bolt, Flying Wild, Dunkirk, Drinnies Double, Stalbridge Colonist The Laird Rondetto, What a Myth, Fort Leney, were but a few high class chasers………hurdlers Black Ice, Harwell, Persian War, Major Rose, Spartan General, Super Flash, Flash Bulb, Sempervivum, Bula, Choral Diver and dozens more………Arkle stood out but take him away and you had mega competitions….these horses were all prolific winners …the competition was fierce to say the least..the quality of horses hasn’t changed a bit IMO……..but if anything it’s gone backwards and there a lot more bad horses winning these days in comparison……..Champion hurdle has been a joke since istabraq retired………worst champion hurdle period in twenty years FFS.
Best mate winning 3 Gold Cups sums up how bad a state chasing got to.
Now we have a brilliant Gold Cup to look forward to one of the best in 40 years,thank God. The champion hurdle could yet turn out to be good but it doesn’t look that way. Favourites a monkey IMO
The two mile champion chase has been the same for as long as I can remember……always has a couple of class horses in it and usually the easiest race at Cheltenham to pick the winner of.
I don’t enjoy harping back to days of old but Dunkirk was so fast over two miles Arkle couldn’t have got within 10 lengths of him……unfortuantely his career was cut short..Flyingbolt, Drinnies Double, Badswoth Boy Barnbrook Again etc etc.year after year brilliant 2 milers pop up…some amazing horses……..I would never get into an argument on which 2 miler was best………other than to say Moscow Flyer as good as he became was ordinary in comparison to some of them.
The 1960’s was missing an entire batch of steeplechasing superstars from France, a good number of high class flat horses and a number of Irish point-to-pointers.
They were all prolific winners implies the competition wasn’t as strong as it is now, how often would a horse rack up a 8 or 9 race winning run in open races in the modern era? Does it make them any worse than a horse from the 60’s trained on turf doing a 2m canter every day etc.
Least I’ll be able to look back in 30 years time and go "x will never be as good as Kauto Star" "we had Kauto, Denman, Moscow Flyer, Well Chief, Azertyuiop, Istabraq – they’ll never top those"
Wasn’t as competitive Irish Stamp???..you must be kidding……..only time that happened was when Arkle was running and trainers knew it was a waste of time taking him on..
…hurdlers Black Ice, Harwell, Persian War, Major Rose, Spartan General, Super Flash, Flash Bulb, Sempervivum, Bula, Choral Diver and dozens more……..
FOF, I basically agree with you about the chasers, apart from What A Myth who must be one of the worst Gold Cup winners ever, but you overstate the position regarding the hurdling division. During the 1960s, the top hurdlers were a pretty poor bunch, even as I look back through sepia-tinted spectacles (Persian War excepted, of course).
You must be from Venus
What A Myth was my favourite horse, a brilliant animal who had a terrific turn of foot. he was stringing wins together from when he was an 8 year old…he won 4 good chases on the trot that season……He then won 8 out of nine races and fell in the other all in one season, which included the Whitbread Gold cup. Arkle 1965 won it then What a Myth 1966 Then Mill House 1977..he was super horse and one of Ryan Prices best ever and was only 9 years old at that time. He kept his form brilliantly and was going as well as any in Foinavons national when being baulked…….Pual Kelleway reckoned he would have been very close to winning had the mellee not taken place.
He lost form and went hunting for a while and then came back at 12 years old and won the Gold Cup……again I backed him and although not a great Gold Cup would be no worse than what Best Mate won …….a few years earlier he was right in the thick of things and had it not been for Mill House and Arkle he would have probably won 3 Gold Cups. He was just pipped on the line by Arkle for second when Stalbridge Collinist won the Hennessy.
His gold cup victory was just the icing on the cake of a brilliant career.
The 1960’s was missing an entire batch of steeplechasing superstars from France, a good number of high class flat horses and a number of Irish point-to-pointers.
They were all prolific winners implies the competition wasn’t as strong as it is now, how often would a horse rack up a 8 or 9 race winning run in open races in the modern era? Does it make them any worse than a horse from the 60’s trained on turf doing a 2m canter every day etc.
Least I’ll be able to look back in 30 years time and go "x will never be as good as Kauto Star" "we had Kauto, Denman, Moscow Flyer, Well Chief, , Istabraq – they’ll never top those"
You will that mate especially Kauto…….Moscow and Istabraq.you will have forgotten how to spell Azertyuiop and you will get so many arguments about well chief you’ll do a Peter and deny him 3 times
Since the introduction of commonly available media the generation old enough to have been around plus their offsprings will always be biased towards early memories.
Taking horse racing out of the equation: –
Best film ever (as regularly voted) = Citizen Kane. IMO – No it’s not. Yes it was good at the time and the story will not date but times change and if you’d produced anything too different you’d have been laughed at.
Best Group = The Beatles. Love them but listen to Love Me Do now and tell me that it’s a better song than Smells Like Teen Spirit.
Best Sportsman = George Best. Fantastic but, well…
Forward to the decade 2000+: –
Citizen Kane looks dated and the story seems well.. a little boring.
The Beatles, songs too short and too repetitive. Nobody goves a toss now that some of their stuff was ahead of the times because it isn’t anymore.
George Best. He obviously had unbelievable talent but his wreckless ways were partially hidden by the fact that it was the norm to a degree so he was running rings around other footballers who also had hangovers.
If any of the above were introduced to the current global audience they would never be heard of.
Arkle may have been the greatest racehorse ever but why should this sport be any different.
We all know that Himself would have been beaten by a Pipe / Nicholls French mare recruit carrying the 5yr old + Sex allowance and getting in excess of 28lbs on official ratings
Agreed about the early memories thing… it’s the hankering after youth and all that – but somethings really were better – honest !
I do agree that Citizen Kane is over-rated and undeserving of its lofty status among film historians, though heavens to murgatroyd, the same cannot be said of Arkle, The Beatles and George Best, who remain for me the best chaser, the best pop group and the best footballer (aptly named) the British Isles have ever produced.
Nirvanna’s Teen Spirit. Good little ditty, but when a band such as Kurt Cobain’s grunge combo is remembered and celebrated solely for the one song and average album (Nevermind), then it safe to say the barrel is being well and truly scraped. The Beatles’ catalogue of songs on the other hand is incomparable and unmatched.
Of course, I do realise ( and hope) that Wilsonl comments were tongue in cheek… but hey, we can’t take that chance.
But I digress. Best two mile chaser. For me, Badsworth Boy.
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FOF, I too backed What A Myth when he won the Gold Cup, and good horse though he was, he must have been about 3 stone inferior to Arkle.
You omit to mention that WAM’s Whitbread victory came under the featherweight of 9st 8lbs, albeit with a low topweight due to Arkle’s absence. He was a tip-top handicap chaser at his best, but not any kind of champion.
We should really do away with horse racing these days. Whats the point in watching these inferior animals when we can watch replays are 3 runner Gold Cups run in ploughed fields…..now they were great horses!!!
Someone made a great post earlier (I think it was David Johnston)….basically taking apart Well Chiefs handicap win and looking what he actually achieved. That was never done to the previous greats form….dare question Arkle, Flyingbolt, Night Nurse etc etc and we get lectured that they beat champions (195 rated ones at that) and all ran to form etc etc.
Why does just about every topic regarding form and handicap marks now invariably descend into those who remember the ’60s regaling us young’uns about how Arkle gave Champion the Wonder Horse half a ton and beat him whilst smoking a cigar? It’s becoming a bit dull.
To get back on topic…
They don’t have to enter handicaps if they don’t want to.
You’re absolutely right, Carvills. And that is why with so many options open to horses at Class 1 level these days no one should be expecting the same volume of genuine top-class animals in handicap or limited handicap company.
My argument is that at this point in the season, a 2 mile handicap is more likely to produce an exciting, competitive race than a level weights contest
Again, this is due to the ‘selfishness’ of connections. They don’t want ‘good, exciting races’ necessarily, they just want their horse to be ideally prepared for when it matters, and I can’t say I blame them.
Since the introduction of commonly available media the generation old enough to have been around plus their offsprings will always be biased towards early memories.
Taking horse racing out of the equation: –
Best film ever (as regularly voted) = Citizen Kane. IMO – No it’s not. Yes it was good at the time and the story will not date but times change and if you’d produced anything too different you’d have been laughed at.
Best Group = The Beatles. Love them but listen to Love Me Do now and tell me that it’s a better song than Smells Like Teen Spirit.
Best Sportsman = George Best. Fantastic but, well…
Forward to the decade 2000+: –
Citizen Kane looks dated and the story seems well.. a little boring.
The Beatles, songs too short and too repetitive. Nobody goves a toss now that some of their stuff was ahead of the times because it isn’t anymore.
George Best. He obviously had unbelievable talent but his wreckless ways were partially hidden by the fact that it was the norm to a degree so he was running rings around other footballers who also had hangovers.
If any of the above were introduced to the current global audience they would never be heard of.
Arkle may have been the greatest racehorse ever but why should this sport be any different.
We all know that Himself would have been beaten by a Pipe / Nicholls French mare recruit carrying the 5yr old + Sex allowance and getting in excess of 28lbs on official ratings
Since the introduction of commonly available media the generation old enough to have been around plus their offsprings will always be biased towards early memories.
Taking horse racing out of the equation: –
Best film ever (as regularly voted) = Citizen Kane. IMO – No it’s not. Yes it was good at the time and the story will not date but times change and if you’d produced anything too different you’d have been laughed at.
Best Group = The Beatles. Love them but listen to Love Me Do now and tell me that it’s a better song than Smells Like Teen Spirit.
Best Sportsman = George Best. Fantastic but, well…
Forward to the decade 2000+: –
Citizen Kane looks dated and the story seems well.. a little boring.
The Beatles, songs too short and too repetitive. Nobody goves a toss now that some of their stuff was ahead of the times because it isn’t anymore.
George Best. He obviously had unbelievable talent but his wreckless ways were partially hidden by the fact that it was the norm to a degree so he was running rings around other footballers who also had hangovers.
If any of the above were introduced to the current global audience they would never be heard of.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,were
Arkle may have been the greatest racehorse ever but why should this sport be any different.
We all know that Himself would have been beaten by a Pipe / Nicholls French mare recruit carrying the 5yr old + Sex allowance and getting in excess of 28lbs on official ratings
I certainly don’t live in the past but I do remember it…..I would have Kauto Star over anything I have seen in the past..But I am damned if anyone will convince me that horse like Best Mate or Hardy Eustace would hold a candle to horses like Bula and Arkle……….Kauto Star and Istabraq best around for years.and not many horses from the past would touch them.
No harm in saying so either and incidentally my fav performer at the moment is Akon……my Girlfriend who is half my age loves the Stones…the musical barriers dropped with Frank Sinatra mate..mind you she told me once George Best was the best looking Beatle
PS Citizen Cane is like those arty twats who grab a movie and say how wonderful it was and all the sheep follow………Helen Mirren in the queen was a thousand times better………I’d rather watch Spiderman and Toby than that old fat overrated lump of lard any day.
"Why does just about every topic regarding form and handicap marks now invariably descend into those who remember the ’60s regaling us young’uns about how Arkle gave Champion the Wonder Horse half a ton and beat him whilst smoking a cigar?"
Chewing a carrot actually.
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