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anyone else agree, they should leave him for the season and try and bring him back next year to see if he has any old sparkle left after a break
vf
Yes me. Dawn Approach hasn’t reproduced his Guineas run all season. The Derby took a lot out of him and he’s been given a hard time ever since. There is only so much any horse can take and Dawn Approach desperately needs a good break.
He’s being campaigned like a crap all weather handicapper.
Not sure if its Bolger or godolphin but his placing has been a farce.
Give him a break now and bring him back for champions day and he’ll win the mile race.
there must be a race at southwell he can get beaten in
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Whoever devised this plan should be very sorry.
I agree that he should be let down for a while.I quite like to see racehorses racing, personally. I’m glad they tried to win The Derby with him, I’m glad they brought him out quickly at Royal Ascot (no one was knocking THAT decision after he won), I’m glad he went for the Sussex Stakes AND the Prix Jacques le Marois – there aren’t THAT many Group 1 races in Europe and both were logical targets.
I hope they now prepare him for the Prix du Moulin and the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I agree with Ian that it is great to see them run. There is nothing worse for me than seeing your Gold Cup horse run in November and then being put away til March as seems to happen every year now. However you surely only want to see them run WELL and this is no longer the case with DA.
It has always been Jim’s way to race them hard and often and when you add that to his "sporting" owners philosophy it is little wonder that he has been turned out so often. After that incredibly hard race at Goodwood I think most race watchers would have said "give him a break now". Even Richard Hannon, who like Jim enjoys seeing his horses on the track, decided to rest Toronado and he has had an arguably easier season, certainly a more conventional one.
I suppose you can’t knock them for running in the Derby but the fact remains Jim had no intention of running him until Sheikh Mo told him to and he must have known in his heart of hearts that it was the wrong thing to do. It is a credit to the horse and NOT his connections that he was able to bounce back so quickly but at what cost? In trying to win everything they are now in danger of winning nothing.
Jim often uses words like "hardy" to describe his horses and it was no surprise to me that he ran yesterday and little surprise that he ran the way he did. I am sure it will not change Jim’s outlook on things and there will be many on here that will be pleased about that. For me I always think about what a Cecil would have done or a Stoute or an Ox or a Fabre. "Patience" is their word. I am not sure Jim has that word in his vocabulary.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
He has won two group 1s and been second in another this year.
I think some people on this forum have been smoking crack
SHL
I agree with Ian that it is great to see them run. There is nothing worse for me than seeing your Gold Cup horse run in November and then being put away til March as seems to happen every year now. However you surely only want to see them run WELL and this is no longer the case with DA.
It has always been Jim’s way to race them hard and often and when you add that to his "sporting" owners philosophy it is little wonder that he has been turned out so often. After that incredibly hard race at Goodwood I think most race watchers would have said "give him a break now". Even Richard Hannon, who like Jim enjoys seeing his horses on the track, decided to rest Toronado and he has had an arguably easier season, certainly a more conventional one.
I suppose you can’t knock them for running in the Derby but the fact remains Jim had no intention of running him until Sheikh Mo told him to and he must have known in his heart of hearts that it was the wrong thing to do. It is a credit to the horse and NOT his connections that he was able to bounce back so quickly but at what cost? In trying to win everything they are now in danger of winning nothing.
Jim often uses words like "hardy" to describe his horses and it was no surprise to me that he ran yesterday and little surprise that he ran the way he did. I am sure it will not change Jim’s outlook on things and there will be many on here that will be pleased about that. For me I always think about what a Cecil would have done or a Stoute or an Ox or a Fabre. "Patience" is their word. I am not sure Jim has that word in his vocabulary.
Firstly he has run one bad race so perhaps you might be overstating the fact had he has been not running well lately.
Secondly, what he was attempting was difficult but not impossible. As I have said, Declaration of War ran his race in spite facing some tough challenges lately.
Thirdly, Toronado may have been campaigned more to your liking but he has one one group 1 against 4 for Bolgers horse. There is no getting away from results.
Finally "It is a credit to the horse and NOT his connections that he was able to bounce back so quickly but at what cost? In trying to win everything they are now in danger of winning nothing. " …..Unless the horse has taken to training himself, entering and making the decision to run, I feel he deserves not more credit than usual. Like it or not, Bolger felt he could run his race after the Derby fiasco and he was proven right. He felt he could run his race at Goodwood and he was right. He felt he could run his race in Deauville and he was wrong.
If the horse was campaigned by some others such as Stoute, I dont see how he could have achieved much more and he certainly wouldnt have inspired as much excitment and lit up the mile division as he has. Thats good for the racing.
SHL
Jim is willing to let his horses run and be beaten when it happens.If one is not willing to be beaten one should not be in the racing business.As one trainer said."I am in the business of racing not hiding." Some fans want their favorite horses to never be beaten.Better not race them in that case.
Well I did say that many on here would agree with Jim’s methods and Sir Harry, Andy and Ginge prove that. I don’t have a problem with that opinion and you all get your fill of the horse so I am sure you are happy. Does it really matter that a great horse looks ordinary? It’s just good that we get to see him as often as possible no?
Sir Harry, just a couple of points about your response –
Dawn Approach has not run one bad race he has run two.
I have never stated that he is "not running well lately" just that he ran poorly on Sunday.
Declaration of War has finished 3rd and 4th in his last two outings so hardly proof positive that he has taken his races well – just better than Dawn Approach – hardly surprising as he is a year older.
Toronado has indeed only won 1 Group 1 race but to be fair to him has only run in 3. He is what we would call a progressive horse whereas DA won the first two year old race of last season. Toronado may well win one or two more by the time he retires at the end of his 4 year old campaign – a campaign I doubt DA will be getting.
My point about DA getting credit for bouncing back is that they will have done little or no work with him in between the Derby and ST James as there would not have been time. So the horse has recovered remarkably well and deserves credit for that as opposed to the trainer doing anything special. If you want to give Jim credit for running him then fine but, let’s be honest, Jim runs them whatever doesn’t he? It was hardly a big decision "he is fit, he is not lame, let’s run him."
I don’t see how any of us could possibly know what would have happened if he had been handled by a different trainer. We can only guess at how they might have been handled and the sort of campaign they would have been given and there is nobody better than Sir Michael when it comes to that. The likes of Sir Michael always talk about doing what is best for the horse. Can we say the same about Jim in relation to DA?
Every trainer has their methods and they ALL make mistakes from time to time. I suppose my point about DA is that this always looked likely to happen. It is great to see horses running a lot but you cannot go to the well too often.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
reported to have scoped badly.
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8867635/dawn-to-be-rested-after-bad-scope
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Let’s say you had a 3 year old miler who had previously settled well at a mile, had breeding to suggest had a fair chance of staying 12 furlongs, in good form at home at the beginning of June, with form infinitely better than any other three year old rival, who was bound to start a short priced fav (ie had by far the best chance of all runners)… Wouldn’t you run it in the Derby?
Personally, if I were the owner or trainer of a horse with just an outside chance of winning the Derby – I’d want to run. Even if you believed Dawn Approach would not stay and/or a false price at Epsom – it was still an obvious decision to take a chance… And the St James’s Palace result proved the decision correct. Had DA not gone for the Derby he could’ve been aimed at the Irish Guineas or St James’s Palace. First at Ascot so chances of winning the latter obviously not hindered by failing at Epsom. There wasn’t any criticism of running DA after such a short lay off because he won. Why was it right to run at Ascot and not Goodwood?
I was down in Sussex and Dawn Approach looked in excellent shape, absolute picture. So some TRFers are now saying he should not have run. Presumably they thought the odds-on fav had no chance of winning.
At Ascot Glory Awaits caused chaos and it wasn’t clear if Dawn Approach or Toronado had the worst of it, though obvious latter improved to run former close. Had DA won the race, beating Declaration Of War 2 1/2 lengths, with daylight back to third – everyone would be hailing him as a Great. DA did beat DOW 2 1/2 lengths, but Toronado beat them both. So now some TRFers think Bolger made a mistake in running. 
Yes, it was asking a lot to go for another Group 1 (Moulin) so soon, but he’d already shown great toughness. Bolger camp knew Toronado had shown at least equal form, so their best chance of winning another Group 1 is to avoid the Hannon horse (something no doubt O’Brien and Co considered too). Not at all surprising both Sussex runner-up and third turned up at the weekend, also not surprising neither showed their form. Still worth taking a chance, as the French mare proved.
Note, Moonlight Cloud had a quick turn around (just 7 days in her case), yet nobody is criticising Freddie Head. Wonder why?
Value Is EverythingMoonlight Cloud didn’t run in the Derby and pull his own head off and jockeys arms out then face a battle royal at Royal Ascot and another at Goodwood before taking a trip from Ireland over to France though Ginge.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Ginge – who is saying he should not have run at Goodwood? Certainly not me. A gap of 40 odd days – no problem.
It transpires the poor old horse is now sick.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Personally, if I were the owner or trainer of a horse with just an outside chance of winning the Derby – I’d want to run. Even if you believed Dawn Approach would not stay and/or a false price at Epsom – it was still an obvious decision to take a chance…
Note, Moonlight Cloud had a quick turn around (just 7 days in her case), yet nobody is criticising Freddie Head. Wonder why?
If it was an obvious decision why did his trainer not enter him originally? He didn’t believe the horse would stay.
Your argument with Moonlight Cloud holds no weight as she was only having her 3rd race of the season so has plenty of petrol left in the tank.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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