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Coral to take online business offshore

Home Forums Horse Racing Coral to take online business offshore

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 18 total)
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  • #21307
    ivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … 02902/top/

    Although unsurprising, it is still annoying. These firms want it all ways. A punter wins in any significant volume and the account is closed.

    Then, at a time of increasing austerity in the UK, when we are all being asked to pay more by way of taxes, and emloyers freeze or reduce wages, these companies go offshore to avoid paying their fair share of tax.

    They should all be banned from trading in the UK.

    #397708
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    Cannot see what the problem is.

    The bookmakers primary responsibility is to their shareholders and maximising profits, not to racing, not to punters.

    They are simply taking full advantage of the tax regulations as any good business should do.

    Are you telling me you would happily pay more tax than you need to?

    #397712
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    Unless they can move the FOBTs offshore I cannot imagine any government creating much of a fuss either.

    #397769
    DaveMonk
    Member
    • Total Posts 153

    Seems correct business sense to me. It wont be long before all bookmakers are set up in Guernsey, IOM, Malta etc. In fact on my holiday to malta last year, i noticed how many more uk banking sectors and high volume call centres have popped up. Salarys are also lower in these parts, making it even more cost effective.

    Dave

    #397780
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    Would this work for racing…

    Charge extortionate fees for racing data usage to all offshore companies or simply refuse to sell that data to such companies. Are racenames, cards and results copyright?

    In other words, find a way to claw back the money that those companies have ‘saved’ by going offshore.

    #397788
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1555

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/coral-to-take-online-business-offshore/1002902/top/

    Although unsurprising, it is still annoying. These firms want it all ways. A punter wins in any significant volume and the account is closed.

    Then, at a time of increasing austerity in the UK, when we are all being asked to pay more by way of taxes, and emloyers freeze or reduce wages, these companies go offshore to avoid paying their fair share of tax.

    They should all be banned from trading in the UK.

    They should be banned from trading at all if they don’t take every advantage possible to protect their employees and shareholders.

    They are doing what any good accountant would advise them to do and they are paying their fair share of tax as they are breaking no laws.

    Morally you may think it is wrong but it’s just business and the way of the world. Learn to live with it.

    #397799
    okjoe57
    Participant
    • Total Posts 189

    Apart from the admirable Bet365 who else does that leave onshore?

    #397800
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5503

    Would this work for racing…

    Charge extortionate fees for racing data usage to all offshore companies or simply refuse to sell that data to such companies. Are racenames, cards and results copyright?

    In other words, find a way to claw back the money that those companies have ‘saved’ by going offshore.

    Not sure about the copyright issues though I seem to recall our legal correspondent Wit, and others, discussing it in the past

    On the assumption that racing data is the ‘intellectual property’ of the BHA (or whoever) and cannot (or should not) be used for commercial gain free of charge then I think the attempt to call the bookies’ bluff by whacking up fees is an idea as misplaced as Peter Savill’s brainwave to make newspapers pay through the nose for data

    It’s common knowledge that horseracing is a declining part (percentage-wise) of the bookmakers’ betting portfolio and they now to all intents and purposes tolerate racing whereas, not so long ago, they needed it

    So IMO any attempt by racing to penalise bookmakers who go offshore would be met by a shrug of the shoulders, a wry smile and the languid raising of two fingers

    #397803
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    The other point to bear in mind is if data charges are introduced, and I am of the view it would not survive a legal challenge if it was, then the charges would also have to apply to media outlets as well.

    If that were to happen then you could kiss goodbye to most racing coverage in the newspapers.

    Sports editors are already looking at cutting down coverage of racing /printing of racecards – should data charges be pursued then it would be counter productive for the sport as it would give editors a ready excuse to drop racing.

    #397820
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2164

    @cormack15

    Copyright in lists is awaiting clarification by the Court of Appeal in the Dataco case – see most recent post on following thread:

    https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 2&start=13

    Basically, the ECJ has now confirmed its earlier view in the William Hill case that the protection of databases is a narrow concept.

    The Dataco case now goes back to the English Court of Appeal for it to determine whether lists of games contain the necessary degree of originality to be afforded copyright protection.

    That might just impact in some way lists of horses running in a race – though IMO it seems unlikely, since the matter of which horse meets which horse and when and where is not something that is "created" in the same way as which football team meets which other team and when and where for a league game.

    Different environment I know, but its interesting that one way in which the HKJC is now getting its share from illegal bookmakers is that they are sending increasingly huge sums back into the official Tote in the very last seconds before the "off" in order to manage their "S.P." liabilities.

    #397827
    ricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2999

    Leaving aside any moral or political issues , can someone please explain to me , how racing will obtain funding from these bookies or any bookies if they are all trading offshore

    How will the next levy be funded ???

    cheers

    Ricky

    #397829
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    Leaving aside any moral or political issues , can someone please explain to me , how racing will obtain funding from these bookies or any bookies if they are all trading offshore

    How will the next levy be funded ???

    cheers

    Ricky

    A tombola is currently favourite though it has been suggested that a "Find the Lady" stall could yield greater returns.

    #397835
    aji
    Member
    • Total Posts 469

    I remember reading a year or so ago that prize money in france had increased. Entry to major races there is a few euros. What are they doing right and we doing wrong?

    #397836
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    How will the next levy be funded ???

    cheers

    Ricky

    The Levy is obsolete and not fit for purpose

    #398167
    ivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    I can see the argument as to why it is being done – I opened my thread with the word "unsurprising". However if all businesses operated with the same lack of national unity then the exchequer would quicky see its income plummet.

    Yes, Coral are reacting to pressure from competitors who started the rot, but wouldn’t it be nice for them to take a moral stance and be the first to say something like "Britain comes first"? I know in the financial services industry a lot of fund managers started to market investments that were more ethical in their stock selection and they have attracted investors so whats to stop Coral marketing themselves as "the moral bookmaker"?

    Would I happily pay more tax than I have to. If I felt that it would be of benefit to our greater society yes I would , and I am sure there are plenty of people who would (or at least I like to think there are).

    But to be honest I don’t think that is the point here. Government needs to become more active in ensuring that the tax system is fair and equitable and that everybody pays their fair share. I couldn’t afford to hire an accountant to find tax avoidance measures for me, but entities such as Coral can and do with some success. I believe it is the job of government to ensure this inequality is made a thing of the past.

    #398179
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    The government should also be diligent in investigating whether these companies were truly ‘operating’ from offshore and weren’t conducting key elements of their business from within the UK.

    #398185
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    I couldn’t afford to hire an accountant to find tax avoidance measures for me, but entities such as Coral can and do with some success.

    It’s a common fallacy it’s expensive – I pay my accountant a small retainer plus a percentage of the tax I save.

    That way the more she saves me the more she earns – a win / win situation.

    I believe it is the job of government to ensure this inequality is made a thing of the past.

    It is the job of Government to implement proper regulations in the first place if they cannot frame proper regulations they cannot complain if people find loopholes.

    Personally I would be inclined to pay more tax if the tax revenue was used properly – so much is misused there is no incentive to pay more.

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