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Following on from Mr Mottershead’s polemic in the RP today for including geldings
Status quo for me
Anyone actually agree with him?
Generally I prefer to watch the best horses race Zilzal.
I don’t see why a good race mare should be excluded.
From a purely puritanical perspective, deep down, something says the top G1 races should be entires/fillies/mares only, but shouldn’t a horse race against the best of that time/generation, regardless of bits and pieces to prove itself?
All should be eligible, whether colts , fillies , stallions ,
mares , or geldings , in my view.Personally, I don’t see the argument for excluding geldings from the Arc. Classic races for obvious reason exclude them but outside of that I do not think geldings should be excluded.
The Arc is supposed to be the all aged middle distance championship race where all the best horses meet to crown the best 12F horse in Europe and yet you are excluding a section of horses (that could only enhance the prestige of the race) from competing in it.
Its not like the French have not relaxed their stance on this issue as some of their Group races are now open to geldings – races like the Prix Du Moulin & Prix d’Ispahan being major G1 examples along with (ironically) noted G2 Arc Trials the Prix Niel & Prix Foy and most bizarrely the G3 Prix Djebel (a noted Classic Trial for the 2000g)………go figue.
I agree with Mottershead. Put simply, I want to see the best horses racing each other. I know racing and breeding are mutually dependent, but racing should be the priority.
I don’t see why geldings should be banned from any races open to colts, including Classic races. There’s no guarantee these days that they won’t end up as a gelding after winning a Classic in any case.
Could open floodgates , nearly every horse in Derby in OZ and NZ is a gelding , they cannot breed many decent horses from 2000 up thenselves now as majority of good ones gelded . Year after year the big races over distance swamped by imports and it cannot be turned round .
Geldings easier to train , focus more on racing , it is imho just an odd year with 2 very good geldings , open race breed will narrow .Is it possible that about 50-60 years ago there were fewer geldings in the sport and the trend to geld a horse has become more popular in the past 3-4 decades?
I want the best horses to compete and why shouldn’t geldings be part of that?
However the Breeders’ Cup is the wrong name for that particular meeting.Surely we just want to know who the best horse is. Horses like teleprompter and cirrus des anglais are such mainstays of racing that it is nonsense geldings can’t be in the big races. Just ridiculous when you think about it.
As geldings are generally easier to train , generally focus more on racing , hence 99 PC HK horses gelded , should they have to carry a few pounds more than entires if allowed in .
Don’t think you can make a general assumption that geldings are easier to train and thus penalise them additionally because of it – they should just be treated the same based on their age i.e. they get 8-13 as a 3yr old and 9-5 if they are 4 or older.
The rule to keep geldings out make no sense, the classic generation have their own restricted races (as they should) but then when they move out into so called ‘open company’ in order to prove themselves against the older generation, it should include everyone………end of story.
All should be eligible for the Arc.
We have Guineas, Derbys and Oaks to decide the best Colts and Fillies.
It’s such a shame Calandagan can’t run as he’d be a good thing in my opinion.
Geldings are easier to train in general , thats why they come off quickly in HK , OZ , NZ .
Buckeroo won Group race Randwick yesterday after winless run , first thing trainer and jockey mentioned was gelded and took a step forward because of it .
The logistics of training an entire in itself is more difficult , thats why they have separate barns at the big stables .
If it isnt easier and helpful to focus the horses mind they wouldnt bother doing the Op.
In last 10 years how many gelding missed out on a live chance in Arc , its a blip this year with two very good geldings .‘In last 10 years how many gelding missed out on a live chance in Arc , its a blip this year with two very good geldings’.
So why bother excluding them then? History shows us that geldings in Europe are not cleaning up in the European G1s they have been eligible to run in (including races in France) for many years.
A lot of the older horses that win big G1s in Europe are in fact entire horses so unlike the other jurisdictions you mentioned we don’t seem to be in any rush to geld horses for the pure purpose of improving them to be group performers.
Geldings (in general) may very well be easier to train but that doesn’t appear to have given them the kind of advantage that would warrant them being given additional weight to be allowed to run in the Arc, as former France Galop president Edouard de Rothschild has suggested.
It’s 2024, it’s about time we moved on from old school nonsense. Far too much wrong with the sport is driven by the breeders, a case of the tail wagging the dog.
I have not seen the Racing Post article but:
I am not sure geldings are “easier to train” than the colts they’d race against in Group 1 races.
Yes, the reason racehorses tend to be gelded is their troublesome temperament. Therefore gelding a colt with a suspect temperament can improve the horse’s form. However, one of the reasons top racehorses are top racehorses is their good temperament. So gelding a top racehorse who already has a good temperament may well be unlikely to improve his form.
…And anyway: Even if Group 1’s are (looking at it with a business eye) supposed to produce stallions. If a top colt cannot beat a top gelding, then the prospective stallion’s ability should be revealed… And that can surely only be good for the breeders / breed. It is imo only to the race and breed’s advantage if the best racehorses meet and currently top racehorses (connections) avoid each other too often without putting artificial blocks on who is allowed to run.
A top filly / mare can only produce one more foal a year than a gelding. So if it is done for breeding purposes – there is very little difference between not allowing females and not allowing geldings.
In Open Group 1 races like the Arc, please let them all run and let’s see the best racehorse.
Value Is EverythingI remain conflicted. On one hand I want to see the best horses face each other, on the other, I want stallions and mares to have had proper racing careers for the sake of the breed and I think having top races restricted to entires can encourage owners and trainers to think twice before gelding horses who may be late developers.
The many gelding proponents here will have enjoyed Tyrone Molloy’s riposte to Richie Forristal’s opinion piece in today’s RP. I remain in agreement with Richie. The clue is in the term “entire.” Colts are the original article, they have not been altered fundamentally in a manner that is impossible to assess. I don’t want to see “crack” geldings destroy the chances of 3yo colts through some unfair advantage in arguably the greatest Heritage race of them all.
Hands off the Arc!
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