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Not all the names of those on the seven committees are familiar to me, so I might have missed them, but I couldn’t see anyone on any of them representing racing cutomers (racegoers and punters).
Is there anyone who will speak out in favour of collabaration with the bookmakers being in the
long-term
interests of the sport? It’s clearly the route the racing authorities, media, politicians and even the tote have gone down. Yet you’d struggle to find any of them defending it or even admitting to it. All you get is denial whether it be Donoghue, Millington, Struthers etc
No evidence to suggest UK pattern prizemoney is decreasing Ginger, on the contrary its increased for 2009.
My point was not about what is happening now Cav.
You said you wanted Sheikh Mo and Co to have less money which implies you want prize money of Group 1’s to be less.Presvis is a gelding.
O.K. bad example.
13 of the last 20 Guineas (1000&2000) were won without a Guineas prep.
My point was the same thing might happen to some of our mid season targets, connections missing them in favour of more valuable Autumn targets.
The Breeders Cup is drug free and run on polytrack, a surface where the European Turf horse can now show his true ability to the US breeding industry, hence the increased European interest.
Very true, which is why we must maintain or even increase prize money of our best races; now that there is increased competition. Not lower it as you implied.
Climatic, seasonal and logistical considerations will never make Australia and Hong Kong any more than beginning/end of season add ons for the biggest European breeders.
If the value of their racing increases and ours decreases then our horses may go there earlier to eclimatise.
The evidence suggests the reverse is happening, foreign horses are coming to Europe to be made as stallions Haradasun a good example.
Yes, at the moment prestige of British racing means it is well worth them coming over. But again, if prize money and prestige changes we may find the reverse happening.
The Maktoums have a massive and endearing passion for European horseracing, their forays into the Far East, Australian and US racing hasn’t come at the expense of their European interest in the sport. Dont think Aidan O Brien will be looking for a new house anytime soon, Juddmonte maintain a strong commitment to UK racing.
I do not think it is wise for us to rely on the Maktoums to keep faith in British racing. I myself backed two horses (Aljabr and Shamardal) ante-post for the Guineas who were trained instead for the Kentucky Derby. Which suggests a greater interest these days in US racing. Juddmonte often send a lot of their horses over to the US too, so it won’t take much for either to change aliegences.
From a quality perspective the UK pattern is in good shape.
Yes it is Cav, at the moment but we should not be complacent. I believe it would be best to increase prize money of Group 1’s not decrease it.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI read the details of the Harrison fraser presentation with a huge sense of deja vu.
Not so long ago I was a consultant involved in such change programmes. Up to this point the research tells us nothing we don’t already know and why should it? All they’ve done is interview all the stakeholders involved, structure the info and repeat it back – no suprises, and everyone will support some of it, the bits they recognise.
The sad thing is that the conclusions and the next steps can be applied to any business/enterprise that is sufficiently self aware to recognise that it needs to change to survive. ‘Define your product, understand your customer, communicate better, maximise strengths, etc’ and here are some working parties to take them forward. We used to have ready made presentations of research results and recommendations, many of which needed little tweaking other than entering the Company name.
At this point in time there is no suggestion of who/what will have to change, how, when and at what cost, so it’s completely non threatening. Only when those issues are addressed will the vested interest defence mechanisms start to surface, and can be challenged.All succesful change programmes need a clearly defined end point, a detailed route map of how to get there, and a driven, charismatic leader to make it happen. I don’t see how the suggested next steps are going to produce this.
Anyway, that’s off my chest, but I’ve got a question – what is the product that needs rebranding? Is it Horse Racing the sport, Horse Racing the social occasion, or Horse Racing the betting medium?
According to Greg Wood, the consultants say that 1 in 10 members of the population goes racing once a year. This figure seems too high to me. It certainly doesn’t hold good among the people I know. How have they arrived at it?
Yes it is Cav, at the moment but we should not be complacent. I believe it would be best to increase prize money of Group 1’s not decrease it.
Agreed, no room for complacency and the BHA in fairness to them have addressed that. The £1.5 million enhancement fund from last year ensures pattern prizemoney in the UK has increased to the same levels as Ireland and France. A good move and long may it continue.
Seems I misjudged you Cav, and we do agree.So what did your opening line in this thread mean? How do you want the money redistributed? Or was it a throwaway line?
Mark
Value Is EverythingIf I had £10 million to invest in UK racing, I’d invest it in racings main appeal to the general public, gambling. I’d be the Michael O Leary of racing and take the product to the housewives and students via the newsagents, supermarkets, and universities. I’d dumb it down for them and make racing accessible via the medium of the scratchcard. The resultant profits would go to the levy and charitable organisations and everyone in racing would benefit not just the billionaires at the top. I’d also set to work on the Tote and drag it into the 21st century, probably employ some of the boys from Hong Kong on that project.
Thats what I’d do.
If I had £10 million to invest in UK racing, I’d invest it in racings main appeal to the general public, gambling. I’d be the Michael O Leary of racing and take the product to the housewives and students via the newsagents, supermarkets, and universities. I’d dumb it down for them and make racing accessible via the medium of the scratchcard. The resultant profits would go to the levy and charitable organisations and everyone in racing would benefit not just the billionaires at the top. I’d also set to work on the Tote and drag it into the 21st century, probably employ some of the boys from Hong Kong on that project.
Thats what I’d do.
Aintree – Liverpool
Newbury/Ascot/Kempton/Windsor – various London uni’s
Brighton – Brighton
York – York
Ponte/Wetherby – Leeds
Carlisle – Lancaster
Musselburgh – Edinburgh
Hamilton – Glasgow
Cheltenham/Bath – Gloucester
Doncaster – Sheffield
Nottingham – Nottingham.Not hard to get the Universities involved
I know some of the PR-speak is ridiculous, but it’s vital that this process succeeds. It’s good to get opinions from the outside world, we in racing find it almost impossible to see ourselves as others see us.
I’m not one of those who think that the basic product is all right and just needs to be explained/presented better to those benighted unfortunates who don’t "get" racing for everything to be fine. This otherwise dismal recession provides an excellent opportunity to make positive, radical changes to the sport.
What concerns me about this exercise is the seven committees thing. I’d rather have one committee, with just seven people on it. Who are the people on these committees?
I’ve a melancholy feeling that they’ll be predominately male, white, upper middle class or richer, middle aged or over, overweight, and of course, ex-public school. Probably all Brians and not a Ben in sight.
Please tell me I’m wrong, somebody.
Please tell me I’m wrong, somebody.
I would love to tell you you’re wrong but I’d be lieing.
According to Greg Wood, the consultants say that 1 in 10 members of the population goes racing once a year. This figure seems too high to me. It certainly doesn’t hold good among the people I know. How have they arrived at it?
As usual, someone mentioned it in passing at the coffee machine as he thought he remembered someone saying something like that some time ago. They then wrote it into the report. It’s the truth but not as we know it.
I would like a TV advertisment made by the BHA to encourage people to come racing.
This could include a picture of the excitement we all know goes on when racegoers cheering a winner home. But at first don’t show the race, show a lottery type of thing, with a ball coming out of a tube. As if the crowd is cheering on the numbered ball. This would contrast how little excitement millions get when watching the lottery, and hopefully encourage that audience to come racing.
Then you could show what else goes on at the races without too much of the elitist stuff that racecourses usually plug. Yes show the restaurant, but also the burger / fish and chips and bar. Get Agnus Haddock, John McCrirrick (not too much don’t want him putting people off), Frankie Dettori and Head Turner envolved.
May be a paddock scene, with one well clad punters pride and another just smartly dressed bunch choosing their girlfriend / boyfriend.
Lastly, again the orgasm when they shout their lover home.
Excuse the metaphors.Mark
Value Is EverythingYou have to laugh at people thinking they can take horse racing to everyone and their dog when you can’t even see alot of frickin replays you get charged money for it.
Can you imagine some site charging you money everytime you wannae see a team score a goal at football ?
The fact is horse racing isn’t a rosey as some would have you believe. Trainers say little, people want to bleed you dry and bookies want your cash by any means.
Again to draw comparisons to managers and trainers, can you imagine a football manager not holding press conferences or telling anyone his lineup ?
Trying to draw peple into horse racing in the current climate is like leading a gullible victim into a forest, knowing that they’re going to fall into a fern covered trap that you set out for them, where upon they fall 12 feet into a pitt of snakes.
You have to laugh at people thinking they can take horse racing to everyone and their dog when you can’t even see alot of frickin replays you get charged money for it.
Can you imagine some site charging you money everytime you wannae see a team score a goal at football ?
The fact is horse racing isn’t a rosey as some would have you believe. Trainers say little, people want to bleed you dry and bookies want your cash by any means.
Again to draw comparisons to managers and trainers, can you imagine a football manager not holding press conferences or telling anyone his lineup ?
Trying to draw peple into horse racing in the current climate is like leading a gullible victim into a forest, knowing that they’re going to fall into a fern covered trap that you set out for them, where upon they fall 12 feet into a pitt of snakes.
What a depressing view of our sport.
It is not as bad as all that.
Trainers are not managers.
You have to pay to see every game of football. You have to pay to see every game of horse racing.
You don’t get racegoers shouting "the steward’s a bleedin’ anchor"!
Racing can offer a different kind of day out.
And I really don’t see the bookmaker as the evil baddy. He is trying to make a living the same as anyone else. Make bookmakers part of the experience. Wonder if Barry Dennis has any views on this?
Trainers, well most of them, do give a lot of press inteviews. Get On on ATR has them every morning. RUK has them throughout the afternoon. Sometimes in the lead up to big races, it seems you can’t get Paul Nicholls off the box. Then he gets criticised for apparently contradicting himself.
May be the jockeys could do better, but they have far less spare time on their hands than footballers.Your gloomy picture of racing is not what I see Graeme, the snakes are only in your own nightmare. Wake Up! There is an opportunity here to attract a fresh audience.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI was talking from a betting point of view Ginge. Fair enough if someone wants to waste £250k for starters on some company to think on their behalf, but i’m just being realistic.
Horse racing and gambling go hand in hand. In the current financial climax i don’t think peoples priority is making bookies richer.
If they want to attract people to the track to watch races and have a beer or 10 then that’s fantastic. Attracting people to bet is a whole new ball game though.
With regards to being charged to watch replays, i was referring to the Racing Post/Racing Uk who charge people money to see race replays, because they have half the rights. You don’t get charged money to watch replays of games or goals in football and what have you. I’m a keen horse racing punter and even my patience gets tested when i want to bet but can’t because no replays are available.
If Group 1 races in GB carried even less money than they do now, then connections of the best horses would look to better endowed races abroad.
I disagree – the "prize" for winning a Group 1 is the extra stallion/broodmare value and not the money, which is a pittance compared to the stallion fees etc.
Think it will be a drip drip effect David with every year connections of one or two more horses going elsewhere. It may well take 20 or 30 years, but eventually, the prestige and stallion / broodmare value of a British win will disappear. We already rely on Coolmore, Sheikh Mo and Co to send the best horses over. If British racing was worth significantly less that may change. We already have horses like Presvis concentrating on a foreign field and trainers not bothering with Guineas preps because "it is a long season". If British Group 1’s were worth even less and Breeders Cup / far east potential autumn targets worth even more; they might eventually have a mid-season break. Far eastern and US races could at some point have equal significance for stallion / broodmare values to our breeders. So if one is worth significantly more than the other, what do you think will happen?
Mark
I think the standard of horse in the Uk is nothing like it was.We used to cherry pick races abroad, but now our Gp 1’s are getting the same treatment from the foreign trainers.
A claimer inthe USA can be worth £100,000 to the winner.
Our better horses are getting taken to other countries for buttons & have been for a while.To revisit my earlier post, it would seem that we need to decide what horse racing is before we can attract others to it – sport, social event or gambling medium?
It may be impossible for it to be all three and the implications of that pose a problem. Plenty of posters are disparaging about ladies days, stag/hen parties, after race concerts etc yet they all pull in racing virgins, and generate revenue. So if the future is dependent on increased attendances, as HarrisonFraser imply, then racing should focus on the 90% of the UK for whom it is off the radar. Just a 2% hit rate would generate a new audience of over 1million, but that might mean many of us would never set foot on a racecourse again.
In my youth racing was an infrequent and inaccessible treat. I dreamt of it being available every day, round the clock. I never thought I would say this but….too much! Be careful what you wish for.
So, what sacred cows need to be slaughtered for racing to survive?
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