May 26, 2007 at 16:18 #58279LetsGetRacingMember
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For a horse that has now raced 5 times, and won two Classics, he still looked a little green to me and won a shade more cosily than the official margins would suggest.
He’s very good.May 26, 2007 at 17:42 #58280PompeteMember
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While I can understand Stevedvg’s view…at the same time what more at this stage of the season can he do…?May 26, 2007 at 19:42 #58281VenusianParticipant
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He won it well, perhaps not quite so impressively as at Newmarket, but the slow early pace and his hard pulling during the first furlong didn’t help him.
A brace of 2000 Guineas certainly puts paid to his detractors.May 26, 2007 at 20:56 #58282robnorthParticipant
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Today’s result goes some way to confirming that you can tell a good horse by a fast time, but a slow time doesn’t mean the horse is slow.
Rob<br>May 26, 2007 at 21:50 #58283PrufrockParticipant
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Hmmm. Not sure today’s result did that.
The bone of contention was that most people felt that Cockney Rebel had proved himself a good horse at Newmarket by posting a good time, whereas one attention-seeker took a different view.
I haven’t seen today’s race, but on paper it does not look all that clever by classic standards.
Average RPRs of first 5 home in last 5 runnings of Irish 2,000 Guineas were: 120/116/111/106/104.
In other words, the winner would be rated 120 on average of recent winners, 119 on recent runner-ups, 116 on the thirds, 112 on the fourths and 112 on the fifths.
If you adjust for field size and weight the results you get a figure of 118 or 119.
I hope Cockney Rebel had a fair bit in hand.May 26, 2007 at 21:56 #58284PrufrockParticipant
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Interesting that most people I know think that Excellent Art should have won the French 2,000 Guineas (I agree) and yet Creachadoir finished only half a length further behind Cockney Rebel today than he had behind Astronomer Royal in France.
I was expecting a bit more from a mid 120s horse than a length win in a bunched finish, but as mentioned I have not seen today’s race yet.May 26, 2007 at 21:59 #58285MauriceParticipant
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CR won today with plenty in hand.
Eased to the front about two out, he was only asked to stay ahead and no more. I reckon he had a few lengths in reserve.May 26, 2007 at 22:46 #58286heffoMember
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What struck me about CR’s run today was that the tactics employed were vastley different to the way he came from last to first at newmarket.Today racing just behind the pace. <br>When asked, he took at least a length out of all the horses around him. A few of them looked to be going as well as him at that stage, particularly Creachadoir. I thought it was impressive the way he got them in trouble in just a few strides. Obviously it doesn’t look as impressive as quickening from the rear of a field, but the versatility he showed is comendable.When he hit the front nothing was going to catch him.<br>Of course any performance is only relative to what a horse has beaten. We can only guess and speculate on his true credentials untill he takes on a top miler of the older generation.<br>For what it’s worth I believe Creachadoir would be very hard to beat over 7f.May 26, 2007 at 23:28 #58287GrimesParticipant
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Mordin has been pretty disappointing this year – notably in terms of Cheltenham – compared to last year, when I thought he was generally brilliant.
However, he does have this habit of occasionally committing himself to a tendentious form assessment – irrespective of the horse winning a Classic in style, as in this case (and then following up) – in the most categorical, bombastic way. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â I doubt if most serious punters would have swallowed that whole, when they read it.
My suspicion, for what it’s worth, is that CR is good enough for Teofilo’s connections to think twice about risking an encounter with him, to the possible detriment of his stud value, and maybe will be retiring him earlier than planned. I hope I’m proved wrong, and am still inclined to think Teo’s even better.May 27, 2007 at 05:15 #58288
What interests me is CR clocked 96.1secs and he’s being compared to an average Irish Guineas winner
<br>May 27, 2007 at 06:12 #58289MauriceParticipant
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And I firmly believe we have a very strong crop of 3yos.May 27, 2007 at 06:19 #58290
Quote: from thedarkknight on 7:11 am on May 27, 2007[br]
It seems pretty clear that Cockney Rebel achieved a bit less than he did at Newmarket.
<br>he still beat Duke of Marmalade the same distance
so what your saying is neither the winner or the 4th progressed from their debut runs, but went backwards
I find that hard to believe and it’s this what interests me
(Edited by empty wallet at 7:21 am on May 27, 2007)May 27, 2007 at 06:24 #58291
Quote: from thedarkknight on 7:21 am on May 27, 2007[br]It is the proximity of He’s A Decoy and Followmyfootsteps that make me think he achieved less, EW.
<br>Followmyfootsteps finished a similar distance behind Creachadoir in the French version, He’s a Decoy finished 3L behind HRE at two, so has ability, but is a tad inconsistent for whatever reasonMay 27, 2007 at 06:34 #58292FlashMember
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EW The pace of the race yesterday was different to Newmarket and the proximity of one or two horses suggests that Cockney Rebel has probably run a few pounds below his Newmarket run.
Faster run race and he’d have beaten Creachadoir by further IMO and both he and Duke Of Marmalade would have probably run to higher marks and DOM would possibly have finished infront of Creachadoir.May 27, 2007 at 06:37 #58293
Lot of assumption there Flash and imo your underestimating Creachadoir’s ability
(Edited by empty wallet at 7:38 am on May 27, 2007)
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