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Hi Isinglass,
Great work as usual.
All we need is a picture of Kincsem even in b&w to cement the theory.
As regards Caligula, the link below to the Pathe footage seems to contradict the bloggers description of the colours – I presume the cherry and black must me a more modern version as the pathe coverage definitely shows dark, striped sleeves, dark cap.
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=27789
That flickr site btw way is superb! I made my first foray into purchasing cards the other day (the first 20 leger winners) so to find a resource like this helps with the research.
So the search goes on!
Hi all
Further to my Grand national request up above, I realise that I missed one out. Can someone please supply me with the colours for RED ALLIGATOR (1968)?
Thanks
OA
Old Applejack , hold on a mo with the patchwork please. According to the Benson & Hedges book it quotes the colours of J Manners (owner of Red Alligator) as ….. "Purple" , Green sleeves striped cap.
Hate to contradict I de B as we’re all in this sort of hunt together …. 3rd opinion anyone ?
Anyway , as Old Applejack’s looking at the winners of the National since the 60’s , any of you regulars go back further ? Reason for asking is I’m looking for the colours carried by Woodbrook from 1881 – owner was TYL Kirkwood who owned the dual Ascot Gold Cup winner , The White Knight (1907/1908).
Thanks to Slewman’s postings earlier for selected French & Irish classics , as well as the American Triple Crown races , I thought I’d try and "get" that lot as wella s the Ascot Gold Cup
May be looking for help and/or sympathy soon from you all – very soon !!
cheers
I.According to the 1964 Ruffs Guide the colouors of Mr J Manners were indeed Purple, Green Slvs Striped Cap.
Btw does anyone have the colours and source for Davy Lad (1977 Cheltenham Gold Cup) – I think they were described on here as Brown and White check, Brown Slvs and Cap, whereas I always had it in my mind they were Brown and Beige Silks. Anyone able to clarify please?
My sincerest apologies – Red Alligator colours were indeed PURPLe – must look up references rather than images!!
However, Mrs J B McGowan (Davy Lad) was indedd BROWN and CREAM check, BROWN slvs and cap (straight from 1977 gold cup card).
Incidentally, anyone know when Mr A Stanley Robinson (owner of Tied Cottage) changed his colours? They were black and yellow when Tied Cottage won the RSA chase in 1976 but were NAVY BLUE, MAROON cap by the gold cup of 1979?
Going back a few posts in regards to 1948 Arc winner Migoli and 1952 winner Nuccio. Were owned by The Aga Khan III and his son Prince Aly Khan, which explains that he ran in the Prince’s GREEN, RED SASH, GREEN CAP. 1959 winner Saint Crespin carried those green and red colours also. The Prince’s son, the present Aga Khan IV didn’t start racing horses until the mid-1960’s and registered his GREEN, RED EPAULETS, GREEN CAP. His grandfather The Aga Khan III raced in his GREEN and CHOCOLATE HOOPS, CHOCOLATE CAP. And the present Aga Khan IV’s daughter Princess Zahra Aga Khan registers her colours as GREEN, BROWN EPAULETS, BROWN CAP. I believe France has banned CHOCOLATE as a colour in racing silks and it is now brown (in French, marron). Hope that clears up things.
For anyone interested, I have collated colours for the Ascot Gold Cup, but it only goes to 1948. Any additions will be welcome.
ASCOT GOLD CUP (4000m)
2010 RITE OF PASSAGE (Dr Ronan Lambe)
PURPLE, YELLOW CROSS of LORRAINE, YELLOW CAP2009 YEATS (Mrs John Magnier and Mrs David Nagle)
DARK BLUE, DARK BLUE CAP2008 YEATS (Mrs John Magnier and Mrs David Nagle)
DARK BLUE, DARK BLUE CAP2007 YEATS (Mrs John Magnier and Mrs David Nagle)
DARK BLUE, DARK BLUE CAP2006 YEATS (Mrs John Magnier and Mrs David Nagle)
DARK BLUE, DARK BLUE CAP2005 WESTERNER (Ecurie Wildenstein)
ROYAL BLUE, LIGHT BLUE CAP2004 PAPINEAU (Godolphin)
ROYAL BLUE, ROYAL BLUE CAP2003 MR DINOS (Constantine Shiacolas)
YELLOW, MAUVE SPOTS, YELLOW SLEEVES2002 ROYAL REBEL (Peter Savill)
MAROON, LIGHT BLUE SLEEVES, LIGHT BLUE CAP with MAROON DIAMOND2001 ROYAL REBEL (Peter Savill)
MAROON, LIGHT BLUE SLEEVES, LIGHT BLUE CAP with MAROON DIAMOND2000 KAYF TARA (Godolphin)
ROYAL BLUE, ROYAL BLUE CAP1999 ENZELI (H.H. Aga Khan)
GREEN and CHOCOLATE HOOPS, CHOCOLATE CAP1998 KAYF TARA (Godolphin)
ROYAL BLUE, ROYAL BLUE CAP1997 CELERIC (Christopher Spence)
GREEN, BLACK STRIPED SLEEVES, BLACK CAP1996 CLASSIC CLICHE (Godolphin)
ROYAL BLUE, ROYAL BLUE CAP1995 DOUBLE TRIGGER (Ron Huggins)
EMERALD GREEN, RED STRIPE, HALVED SLEEVES, STRIPED CAP1994 ARCADIAN HEIGHTS (John Pearce)
DARK BLUE, WHITE SLEEVES and CAP1993 DRUM TAPS (Yoshio Asakawa)
GREEN, WHITE SPOTS, ROYAL BLUE SLEEVES, WHITE SPOTS, WHITE CAP, ROYAL BLUE STAR1992 DRUM TAPS (Yoshio Asakawa)
GREEN, WHITE SPOTS, ROYAL BLUE SLEEVES, WHITE SPOTS, WHITE CAP, ROYAL BLUE STAR1991 INDIAN QUEEN (Sir Gordon Brunton)
ORANGE, MAROON HOOP and ARMLETS, BLACK and ORANGE QUARTERED CAP1990 ASHAL (Hamdan Al Maktoum)
ROYAL BLUE, WHITE EPAULETS, STRIPED CAP1989 SADEEM (Sheikh Mohammed)
MAROON, WHITE SLEEVES, MAROON CAP, WHITE STAR1988 SADEEM (Sheikh Mohammed)
MAROON, WHITE SLEEVES, MAROON CAP, WHITE STAR1987 PAEAN (Lord Howard de Walden)
APRICOT, APRICOT CAP1986 LONGBOAT (Richard Hollingsworth)
CRIMSON, SILVER BRAID1985 GILDORAN (Robert Sangster)
EMERALD GREEN, ROYAL BLUE SLEEVES, WHITE CAP, GREEN SPOTS1984 GILDORAN (Robert Sangster)
EMERALD GREEN, ROYAL BLUE SLEEVES, WHITE CAP, GREEN SPOTS1983 LITTLE WOLF (Lord Porchester)
ETON BLUE, BLACK HOOPED CAP1982 ARDROSS (Charles St George)
BLACK, WHITE CHEVRON HOOP, WHITE CAP1981 ARDROSS (Charles St George)
BLACK, WHITE CHEVRON HOOP, WHITE CAP1980 LE MOSS (Carlo d’Alessio)
RED and WHITE HOOPS, GREEN SLEEVES, RED CAP1979 LE MOSS (Carlo d’Alessio)
RED and WHITE HOOPS, GREEN SLEEVES, RED CAP1978 SHANGAMUZO (Mrs E. Charles)
BROWN and YELLOW DIAMONDS, BROWN SLEEVES, CHECK CAP1977 SAGARO (Gerry Oldham)
CHOCOLATE and WHITE HOOPS, WHITE CAP1976 SAGARO (Gerry Oldham)
CHOCOLATE and WHITE HOOPS, WHITE CAP1975 SAGARO (Gerry Oldham)
CHOCOLATE and WHITE HOOPS, WHITE CAP1974 RAGSTONE (Duke of Norfolk)
SKY BLUE, RED QUARTERED CAP1973 LASSALLE (Zenya Yoshida)
BLACK and YELLOW STRIPES, RED SLEEVES1969 LEVMOSS (Seamus McGrath)
GREEN, RED SEAMS and CAP1968 PARDALLO (Mme Suzy Volterra)
WHITE, RED HOOPS, WHITE SLEEVES and CAP1963 TWILIGHT ALLEY (Lady Sassoon)
PEACOCK BLUE, OLD GOLD HOOPS, OLD GOLD SLEEVES1960 SESHOON (Prince Aly Khan)
GREEN, RED SASH, GREEN CAP1959 WALLABY (Geoffroy de Waldner)
WHITE, BLACK HOOP, WHITE SLEEVES and CAP1958 GLADNESS (John McShain)
WHITE, RED ‘B’ front and back, RED STRIPED SLEEVES with BLACK BAND, RED CAP1956 MACIP (Marcel Boussac)
ORANGE, GREY CAP1954 ELPENOR (Marcel Boussac)
ORANGE, GREY CAP1950 SUPERTELLO (Wilfred Harvey)
CHERRY, WHITE STRIPED SLEEVES and HOOP on CAP1949 ALYCIDON (Lord Derby)
BLACK, WHITE CAPThanks Slewman – typically detailed and welcome as always!
Just when I keep thinking I have this game cracked, I stumble on another anomaly, courtesy once more of Youtube!
Allez France’s French Guineas this time as follows:
http://www.youtube.com/user/allezfrance … l0Q-Kqa1Qk
Allez France clearly wears a sash – presumably white?
So who was her stablemate, and why did she not wear the sash?
Have got the following for the Ascot Gold Cup ( can go back to 1807 but a fair bit of typing so will pass those on later if any use or demand ). A few included in here where I need some help if possible. Apologies if it’s a bit tricky to read.
1972 ERIMO HAWK Y Yammamoto pale blue with 2 yellow hoops red slvs red cap with yellow hoop
1971 RANDOM SHOT Mrs J Benskin purple & green stripes flame slvs
1970 PRECIPICE WOOD RJ McAlpine McAlpine tartan yellow slvs yellow & green qtd cap
1967 PARBURY Major H Holt HELP PLEASE
1966 FIGHTING CHARLIE Lady M Bury rose
1965 FIGHTING CHARLIE Lady M Bury rose
1962 BALTO A Reuff HELP PLEASE
1961 PANDOFELL H Warwick Daw HELP PLEASE
1957 ZARATHUSTRA T Gray red white sash
1955 BOTTICELLI Marchesse della Rocchetta white red x belts and cap
1953 SOUEPI G Digby HELP PLEASE
1952 AQUINO II Maharanee of Baroda powder blue maroon chevrons , slvs & cap
1951 PAN II E Constant white green hoop & armlets yellow cap
1948 Arbar Marcel Boussac orange grey cap
1947 Souverain F R Schmitt HELP PLEASE
1946 Caracalla II Marcel Boussac orange grey cap
1945 Ocean Swell Lord Roseberry rose & primsose hoops rose cap
1944 Umiddad H.H Aga Khan III chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1943 Ujiji Major AE Allnatt HELP PLEASE
1942 Owen Tudor C. Macdonald-Buchanan white black hoop & armlets red cap
1941 Finis Sir Hugo Cunliffe-Owen green white hooped slvs qtd cap
1940 No Race
1939 Flyon 1st Baron Milford black white sash & slvs gold cap
1938 Flares William Woodward, Sr. white red spots black cap
1937 Precipitation Lady Zia Wernher green & yellow halves slvs reversed yellow cap
1936 Quashed Lord Stanley black white sash & cap
1935 Tiberius Sir Abe Bailey black & gold hoops gold cap
1934 Felicitation H.H Aga Khan III chocolate & green hoops chocolate cap
1933 Foxhunter Edward Esmond white blue slvs yellow cap
1932 Trimdon Hon Charles Lambton black & white stripes green slvs red cap
1931 Trimdon Hon Charles Lambton black & white stripes green slvs red cap
1930 Bosworth Lord Derby black white button white cap
1929 Invershin J Reid Walker light green
1928 Invershin J Reid Walker light green
1927 Foxlaw Sir Abe Bailey black & gold hoops gold cap
1926 Solario Sir John Rutherford cerise & white stripes white cap
1925 Santorb AB Walker blue red collar & cuffs pink cap
1924 Massine Henry Ternynck black & orange hoops black cap
1923 Happy Man Fred Hardy green white chevron hoops green slvs red collar, cuffs & cap
1922 Golden Myth Sir George Bullough cerise purple slvs
1921 Periosteum Benjamin Irish purple yellow x belts , slvs & cap
1920 Tangiers Sir W Nelson white red , white & blue sash red cap
Cheers
I.Some of the missing Gold Cup ones, and a couple of queries!!!!
1967
Parbury
J. Mercer
Maj. D. W. J. Candy
Maj. H. P. Holt – ORANGE and BLACK hoops, BLACK slvs and cap
7/1 7 Ran1962
Balto
F. Palmer
Max Bonaventure
A. Reuff – PALE BLUE, RED hoop and cap
7/4 F 7 Ran1961
Pandofell
L. Piggott
F. Maxwell
Mr H. W. Daw – GREEN, WHITE cross belts, GREEN and BLACK qtd cap
100/8 10 Ran1953
Souepi
E. C. Elliott
G. Digby
Mr G. Digby – ROYAL BLUE, RED spots, slvs and cap
11/2 10 RanSorry – no help with 1947
I also have a discrepancy with "1951 PAN II E Constant white green hoop & armlets yellow cap" – I have WHITE GREEN hoopS, white slvs, YELLOW cap??
One other query – The Maharani of Baroda – 1948 Ruffs has – LIGHT TERRA-COTTA, CRIMSON chevrons and qtd cap (which agrees with B&H book), BUT, 1964 Ruffs has the POWDER BLUE, MAROON chevrons, sleeves and cap (with suffix of "Seethadivi")
I assume that these belong to different people but which one owned the 1952 winner?I also have a discrepancy with "1951 PAN II E Constant white green hoop & armlets yellow cap" – I have WHITE GREEN hoopS, white slvs, YELLOW cap??
One other query – The Maharani of Baroda – 1948 Ruffs has – LIGHT TERRA-COTTA, CRIMSON chevrons and qtd cap (which agrees with B&H book), BUT, 1964 Ruffs has the POWDER BLUE, MAROON chevrons, sleeves and cap (with suffix of "Seethadivi")
I assume that these belong to different people but which one owned the 1952 winner?The following link seems to favour the powder blue/maroon version which is the version i had recorded. I think the "Sita Devi of Gaekwar" is the identifying part of the name btw.
http://www.geraldsegasby.co.uk/racehors … h-52-24-02I seem to have acquired F R Scmitt’s colours, in french! "Blanche, une étoile & t. gros-bleu" so white dark blue star and cap. Souverain also won the Royal Oax so I must have got this either from an email to France Galop or it might be on the actual France Galop colourse site (as usual after midnight it is down! so cannot check at present).
My E Constant colours are also White, green hoops, white slvs yellow cap however this ITN Source link shows them to indeed be a hoop and armlets.
http://www.itnsource.com/compilations/s … =S31030702France Galop have E Constant as "Blanche, cercle noir, t. rouge" which I understand to mean a single green hoop rather than "hoops" – I think hoops in French is "Cerclée". However for there to be armlets as well on the French version the word "brassards" should be included in the description, so it is impossible to be entirely confident about the French version carried to victory by Pan in the 1950 Royal Oak or even Little Pan in the 1956 Salamandre.
Still dont know where we got the hoops from, unless it was on the French Galop site and we simply misinterpreted the language – I am no speaker of French, far from it, but my trick is if I think I know what something is I look for a more up to date set of similar silks which may be depicted on the site – I think I used the R C Strauss colours to identify what "brassards" were.
As ever we end up with another question rather than a definitive answer! What a thread this is!!
Just noticed 1943 Ujiji Major AE Allnatt HELP PLEASE is still missing.
Ruff’s 1949 has Mr A E Watt’s colours as "White, Red Epaulets, Halved Cap".
In French ‘cerclee’ are hoops (body or sleeves), ‘brassards’ are armlets, one hoop on the body is ‘ceinture’. On France Galop a set of colours described as White, green hoops, white sleeves, yellow cap are registered with a Madame Eugene Constantin. We are after Eugene Constant. But after watching the black and white film of Pan II winning the Ascot Gold Cup it looks like a pale body with a black hoop and armlets and a pale coloured cap. I have stumbled across an old jpeg from ebay of Pan II winning the Ascot Gold Cup, owned by Eugene Constant, his colours in the book were White, Black Hoop, White Cap. Looking back at Pearl Diver who won Epsom Derby in 1946 his owner was Baron Geoffroy de Waldner and he raced in White, Black hoop, White Sleeves and Cap. The plot thickens …………………
Tend to agree with Slewman – certainly looks like black hoop on the film, and that would tie in with
Blanche, cercle noir, t. rouge
wouldn’t it
but the red hat (rouge)leads more towards the Macdonald-Buchanan’s
WHITE, BLACK hoop and armlets, RED capbut its definitely a pale colour on the film!!!!
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