Classic Winners – Owners Colours

[ivanjica]

Hello, all.
Lucky to find the 1974 Epsom Derby racecard with the colours for Nonoalco. Here’s the site.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stujenner/5171729974/#/

thanks slewman, excellent work as always!

[slewman]

Found on Ebay a seller with a 1924 Ascot Gold Cup racebook which had 1924 Prix de L’Arc de Triomphe winner Massine as a runner. Owned by Henry Ternynck and trained by Elijia Cunnington. His silks are BLACK, ORANGE HOOPS, BLACK CAP

[ivanjica]

Found on Ebay a seller with a 1924 Ascot Gold Cup racebook which had 1924 Prix de L’Arc de Triomphe winner Massine as a runner. Owned by Henry Ternynck and trained by Elijia Cunnington. His silks are BLACK, ORANGE HOOPS, BLACK CAP

Thanks Slewman. Is ti still on Ebay? I only ask as I did find a version but the Page with Massine’s colours was only half photographed not showing the colours?

I have rather sadly started taking screen prints and saving them as word docs on my PC for future reference!!!

Moving swiftly on, I have started on the big Jumps races, and rather annoyingly cannot seem to find 1980 GC winner Master Smudge’s colours. I have a couple of photos in books which could be pale blue or white – not sure (plus red diamond and quartered cap).

Does anyone happen to have the correct version of Mr Barrow’s colours please?

Cheers

[ile de bourbon]

Have done most of the big jumps races, and Mr Barrow’s colours (Mr Smudge) were

Pale Blue, red diamond, quartered cap

[ivanjica]

Thanks IDB. As I am in the early stages I shall carry on rather than being lazy! I am missing about 5 gold cups now, but the Gran National is the real poser as its the only big jump race that stretches back into the last century.

[slewman]

No luck Ivanjica, the 1924 Gold Cup card has been taken off EBay.
This Saturday is the Dubai World Cup meet at Meydan and it’s a cracker of a card. Here is the link to all the colours.

http://www.godolphin.com/Entries.aspx

[ivanjica]

Thanks Slew.

I thought I had the Arc nailed (save the two Italian owned anilamls Molvedo and Ortello) but recently acquired an old Graham Goode narrated history of the great race only to find that the footage of Nuccio in 1952 shows the jockey wearing the epaulets of the modern day Aga. Even footage of Migoli seems to show that there are no hoops (there is no close up to confirm there are epaulets).

So is it possible the old Aga’s colors in France were green with red epaulets and the green and chocolate hoops were used in Britain? Alternatively were the epaulets version his second colours and was there a stable companion in the 1948 and 1952 Arcs who wore the "first" colours?

Thanks as awlays.

[isinglass]

Nothing’s ever as simple as it should be is it .

I have seen ( admittedly a while ago and I can’t get back to it on the internet – yet ! ) a painting of Molvedo with what look like red jacket , black cap and it tied in with a photo I’d seen elsewhere but …….. will search again.

Does your posting imply that you’ve only those two missing from the Arc ?

I still haven’t got the following so would love some help please.

57 Oroso
53 La Sorellian
45 Nikellora
33 Crapom

Cheers
I.

PS have you tried the following link ? Helps if you’re after modern French owners but some old established families are in there as well.

http://www2.france-galop.com/couleurs/CatcoNPro.aspx

just type in a name you’re after and click OK after that , click on the camera for the colours .

why can’t we have this in Britain ? never mind eh !

[ivanjica]

Hi Isinglass,

Apologies but yes I have got the ones you mentioned courtesy of an email to the France Galop if memory serves – I thought I had put them up here but must have neglected to. Here goes:

Craporn – Violet (or purple) and black hoops, black cap
Nikellora – Blue, White Epaulets, Yellow Cap
La Sorellian – Red, white seams, red cap
Oroso – Green, white seams, green sleeves, white cap.

Yes, thanks for the link, I think it was posted up here before but has proved very useful. I notice actually that the Oroso silks of Raoul Meyer are registered to Georges Meyer from 1971-1986 – presumably a son? Also the La Sorellian ones of Paul Duboscq appear as those of Phillipe Duboscq 1979-1994 – again presumably inherited by a son?

So that does leave us with Molvedo and Ortello. My presumption is both silks were only ever registered in Italy hence they dont appear on any of the reference sources we typically search on here. I did if I recall correctly send an email to an Italian Racing body but didn’t get a reply – I dont speak Italian so maybe they simply ignored it as it was in English!

BTW was the Molvedo picture the cartoon in the following link?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h … 29,r:2,s:0

Sorry about the long url but that was what google.com threw up. The only problem I see here is that whilst the red/black are confirmed we cannot see if there is anything on the body.

[ile de bourbon]

I agree with Ivanjica’s comments regarding the Paul Duboscq, they are the colours I have for him. Regarding Molvedo, the youtube video (albeit black and white) would tend to indicate NO body markings (the scene where they come back to the unsaddling enclosure) – so can we assume that was just RED, BLACK cap??

Incidentally, does anybody know the colours of "Harvey Cohen" owner of Balla Cove, winner of the Middle Park for Ron Boss in 1989?? I thinks this was probably the only horse he has had, and its the one I am missing from the Middle Park!

[ivanjica]

I agree with Ivanjica’s comments regarding the Paul Duboscq, they are the colours I have for him. Regarding Molvedo, the youtube video (albeit black and white) would tend to indicate NO body markings (the scene where they come back to the unsaddling enclosure) – so can we assume that was just RED, BLACK cap??

Incidentally, does anybody know the colours of "Harvey Cohen" owner of Balla Cove, winner of the Middle Park for Ron Boss in 1989?? I thinks this was probably the only horse he has had, and its the one I am missing from the Middle Park!

Great research – I didn’t even realise there was a video of Molvedo on youtube – yes, I agree the red/black cap must be an odds on fav now.

I got very excited about Balla Cove as I was at the Solario in 1989 – however my racecard tells me he ran in the colours of a Mr J Ellis. However I then remembered I had acquired the racecard for the 1989 Breeders Cup on Ebay however that is less than definitive.

He ran in the juvenile under the trainer Ron McAnally, the owners listed as "Harve C Cohen, Herman King, Dion A Recachna". The colours are as follows:

"Neon Orange, White Music Emblems (single quavers)and Epaulets, Orange Sleevs, White Hoop and Cuffs, Orange and White (quartered cap)."

He actually led the field for quite a long way as in the following footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjztpLFNpJY

I would be pretty surprised if he carried those silks in the Middle Park, although orange-ish does now start to ring a bell. I suspect we will have to acquire or hope someone on here has the 1989 middle park racecard. I am pretty sure I dont but will keep digging.

[Old Applejack]

Morning all

I have a colours question that I hope can be cleared up quickly.

Am looking for the colours of certain Grand National winners in the 60s – which I have only seen in black and white. The ones I want are

Nicolaus Silver
Team Spirit
Jay Trump
Anglo

My wife is going to put together a patchwork quilt that will carry every set of winning colours since 1960, and these are the only ones I’m not sure about.

Thanks for any help.

[ile de bourbon]

Nicolaus Silver – LIGHT BLUE, PINK hoop and armlets, qtd cap

Anglo – ROYAL BLUE, white diamond, hooped cap, GOLD sleeves

Jay Trump – LIGHT BLUE, YELLOW cross belts, qtd cap

Team Spirit – YELLOW, RED, WHITE and BLUE striped sleeves, BLUE cap

Good luck Old Applejack

[Old Applejack]

Thank you IDB. I’m fairly sure I’ve got all the others but I’ll come back here if I need to.

[ivanjica]

Hello again.

I have stumbled upon another infuriating discrepancy between Raciana and the paintings of a Leger winner, namely the 1836 winner Elis, owned by Lord George Bentinck.

As of 1838 Raciana has his colours as Blue, White Cap, however the following painting shows a completely different set of silks:

http://www.john-frederick-herring.org/’ … large.html

They appear to be Navy Blue, Red Sleeves Black Cap.

Has anyone else run into this discrepancy and come up with a definitive answer. My guess is the Raciana colours start from 1838 so the ones in the picture are George Bentinck’s pre-1838 silks. However I dont have copies of any racecards from that era which provide definitive answers.

[ivanjica]

I also seem tio be missing the 1920 St Leger winner Caligula owned by Mathradas Goculdas.

Cannot find him anywhere even in the 1921 Ruffs Guide which is a major pain!

[isinglass]

Hi All ,

was about to mention that I’d found a 1920/21 version of Ruffs Guide on the internet – presume it’s the same one you have Ivanjica , in the area where the old American racing colours were found.

Anyway , re Caligula , I managed to find them a while ago – if you google…… goculdas racing colours cherry you get some references .

Colours are Cherry & Black hoops quartered cap

Ties in nicely with an illustration of the 1923 Derby finish from a set of cigarette cards called “ Big Events on the Turf” by Alexander Boguslavsky.

Goculdas then owned Parth who was placed behind Papyrus – he was then sold to AK Macomber and won that years Arc in the Red & White stripes.

Re the Ruffs Guide – a long way back in this thread wasn’t someone after the colours carried by Kincsem ? Owner was Count von Blaskovits ( or was it Baron ? ) Anyway, have seen illustrations showing very pale colours , sure you folks have. In the Ruffs Guide , admittedly years later , there’s a Nicolaus von Blaskovits listing Light Blue , Light Blue cap with Gold tassel.

Coincidence or not ??

Have also had the same query re Bentinck and came to the same conclusion as you.

Cheers
I.

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