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What is this David a play on words? The horse finished 2nd last year and went on to finish 3rd in the Champion Hurdle. He emphasised how much he was improving by beateing a champion hurdle winner next time out.
Maybe you think improving horses should run of lower marks?
Sometime you just don’t think mate. Give it a rest you’re like a broken record.
Sizing Europe would’ve won ten lengths last year had he not gone wrong IMO. Gaz’s Way De Solzen you are wrong, Sizing Europe was found to have been injured following the Champion Hurdle which resulted in him not seeing a racecourse again before the end of the season.
I agree completely with Fist Of Fury we’ve had a few years of average Champion Hurdles and the previous two years have been awful quality Champion Hurdles IMO. This years looks to be far stronger already with the emergence of a fair few younger, classy horses.
What is this David a play on words? The horse finished 2nd last year and went on to finish 3rd in the Champion Hurdle. He emphasised how much he was improving by beateing a champion hurdle winner next time out.
Maybe so, Fists, but you’ve insisted for a long time that Sublimity was a shite Champion Hurdler, so invoking him hardly bolsters your argument.
Fists i’m personally sick of you rubbishing Hardy Eustace and the rest of the irish hurdlers from earlier this decade as the worst of all time etc, and i’m NOT new in to racing as you state anyone who contradicts you’re wafer thin arguement must be.
"Average horses" don’t win two Champions, or at three successive festivals, in my opinion it really is that simple.
Mate you are entitled to your opinion but for pete’s sake let’s have some reasoning behind it.
I’m sorry your sick of me having a go at your hero but I am not going to say one thing and think another. You as far as I can see are having a go without any justification.
I’m not saying for one minute theere is such a thing as a bad Champion Hurdle winner. What I am saying is in comparison to what I have seen Hardy Eustace was nearer a boat than he was a class horse.
He was better than Sublimity (Point taken Grasshopper but a Champion Hurdle winner nonetheless) A differnt class to Rooster friggin Booster and on a par with Brave Inca but he is not and never will be a name that slips of the tongue when talking about class horses.
When you compare him to horses like Salmon Spray, Bula, Persian War, Night Nurse, Istabraq, Comedy of Errors, Sea Pigeon and Monksfield or the Classy flat horses Kribenisis and Alderbrook then what? There is no way anything from that era would be in the first three in those races IMO.
We hit a flat spot and not for the first time. The era between Sea Pigeon and Istabraq provided us with only a couple class acts in most people’s opinions. Even See You Then who won 3 was not that highly thought of due to lack of decent opposition.
Hardy had an easy time of it winning comparitively easy CH’s now we might just be coming into an era where another great horse may emerge.
Sizing Europe certainly looks the part. Katchit the first horse to win the Triumph and Champion Hurdle since the great Persian War and of course Binocular who potentially could be the best we have seen for a very very long time. Not forgetting the up and coming Crack Away Jack Punjabi Pierre L and Jered.
I advise you to take alook back at Hardy Eustace who’s wins lie between the two worst Champion Hurdle winners in it’s history namely Rooster Booster and Sublimity. Look at what he was racing against..A non stayer or rogue in Harchibald. A very poor CH winner in Rooster Booster and the third Intersky Falcon. If you ask Jonjo to compare him and Sea Pigeon or Dawn Run he would think you were insane and ignore you.
When he won that Champion Hurdle he was a 33/1 outsider which speaks volumes and a handicapper was fav. A dreadful dreadful era best forgotten IMO. For me the only really good horse during that era was Detriot City who may well have beaten him had he not had a heart problem no one knew about.
To sum it it compare Bula who won the Supreme Novices on his way to winning 2 Champion Hurdle like Hardy Eustace. The huge difference is he beat Persian War in his first and won his second doing handstands. In between times he won something like 21 hurdle races. Your fellow never put and more than 3 wins together in his life and lost 23 times. Hardly what I would call a true champion.
If you ask me, should anything but Sizing Europe of those mentioned (a vastly improved novice from last season notwithstanding) win the Champion Hurdle, I’d go as far to say it has been a decidedly ordinary renewal.
Come on Friggo there is a bundle of potential there.
I honestly can’t think of any horse who even resembled a CHAMPION between Rooster and Sublimity. Now my head is in a spin when I think about what could be.
I agree Sizing Europe is the most likely candidate having made Hardy and Co look very very ordinary. (Incidentally Gareth no offence but if you couldn’t see how well SE was going at Cheltenham when injuring himself you really should take up another sport)
It may well be a few or more might end up not even running but if anything is to beat Katchit he will have to be very special. Don’t underestimate the little horse. As far as I am concerned he was well udercooked and deliberately so for most of the season….he is one helluva good horse make no mistake about that.
I think you are saying if Crack Away Jack Jered or Binocular won the Champion hurdle against those mentioned they would have to be extra special? That’s half the field
I think you should try and cheer up mate and watch the flowers blossom while you can.
Potentially the best/most competitive Champion Hurdle since The Sea Pigeon, Monksfield Night Nurse day
I wouldn’t think PFN would be needing to be keep Andy Stewart keen. It just makes more sense to go the handicap hurdle route initially from where I’m sitting.
Maybe I am wrong Friggo but after that performance I reckon he will go straight over fences now. I would be amazed if they didn’t as he must have more chance of success. Just looking at the way he jumps and travels I would think he will make a lovely chaser and for me he just lacks that little bit of toe to be a good hurdler…time will tell.
If you get a chance to watch the race have a look back in the field and watch Nevertika…….nice tender ride, will be ripe and ready next time up over fences. Back it!!!!!
He was better than Sublimity (Point taken Grasshopper but a Champion Hurdle winner nonetheless) A differnt class to Rooster friggin Booster and on a par with Brave Inca but he is not and never will be a name that slips of the tongue when talking about class horses.
Fist, Rooster Booster’s form in winning the Champion Hurdle was markedly better than either of Hardy Eustace’s winning performances. And his form in finishing a shd second in the Tote Gold Trophy off a rating of 166, was arguably better too. OK, he developed into a bit of a rogue, but that shouldn’t detract from the form he was capable of on his going days.
The only think you have been accurate about is that none of the above were in the same class as Istabraq, but it hardly takeas a genius to point that out. Every other opinion you hold appears to require a somewhat bizarre interpretation of the form book, imo. Have you actually seen any racing since 2001??
Not a good run from pierrot lunaire today, hope he is good and comes back from his fall, he is potentially a threat to my binocular bet, but would like to see him build on how smart he looked last season.
He was better than Sublimity (Point taken Grasshopper but a Champion Hurdle winner nonetheless) A differnt class to Rooster friggin Booster and on a par with Brave Inca but he is not and never will be a name that slips of the tongue when talking about class horses.
Fist, Rooster Booster’s form in winning the Champion Hurdle was markedly better than either of Hardy Eustace’s winning performances. And his form in finishing a shd second in the Tote Gold Trophy off a rating of 166, was arguably better too. OK, he developed into a bit of a rogue, but that shouldn’t detract from the form he was capable of on his going days.
The only think you have been accurate about is that none of the above were in the same class as Istabraq, but it hardly takeas a genius to poi
nt that out. Every other opinion you hold appears to require a somewhat bizarre interpretation of the form book, imo. Have you actually seen any racing since 2001??
Have you been on that Pennicuik whacky backy mate?
I have seen every Champion Hurdle since Magic Court and at least 50% of the winners on a racecourse. It happens to be my favourite race.
I distinctly remember Jonjo saying ” If RC is favourite for this it must be one poor CH” Hard to tell when the wee man is serious at times but he thought he was at least a stone behind his old pal Sea Pigeon.
If I remember correctly Rooster Booster started fairly short for the race based mainly on good handicap form and the fact he won the Bula. I also remeber it was a very very poor Bula.
For me he was a good Handicapper up against the most moderate lot you could imagine in a Champion Hurdle. Pipes finished second (name excapes me but I remember he was huge odds and good old RC actaully ran into a place.
Rooster Booster was on form at the right time but overall he proved to be far from true Chamnpionship class losing over 30 hurdle races. I’ll say he went of the boil ok!
My idea of the top 6 Champion Hurdle worst winners I have seen are:
1. Rooster Booster.
2. Sublimity
3. Brave Inca
4. Hardy Eustace
5. Make a Stand
6. Saucy Kit
Would love to see your list but try and do it when your straight
It’s hard to argue with a man who is never wrong, Fist, which makes for a dull debate whenever I enter into one with you.
You seem to think that longevity in the game gives you some kind of insight that is lost on the rest of us. Maybe it does, though the evidence would tend to suggest Parkinsons is more likely.
So, let’s poke a great big gaping hole in your list.
Take a line through any of Marble Arch, Landing Light and Geos, and Rooster Booster is undisputably a better Champion Hurdler than Hors La Loi III.
How you can fail to have that one named on your list is a mystery to me. Of course, I guess you could claim that you forgot all about Mr Fanshawe’s horse, but then that would equate to sloppy research on your part, which surely couldn’t be the case. Could it?
And if you think Rooster Booster was beaten on merit in every one of those 30-odd losses, you clearly haven’t paid very much attention to how he raced. He threw away one Champion Hurdle, and lost many others races, by either failing to go through with his effort (a trait evident throughout his career), or being tactically vulnerable (needed to come late off a strong pace).
You may have the benefit of years in the game, but that in itself means diddly-squat, if you cannot look beyond bare numbers to interpret form.
I think you are saying if Crack Away Jack Jered or Binocular won the Champion hurdle against those mentioned they would have to be extra special? That’s half the field
Not at all- perhaps I should spell out my initial sentiments to you. If Katchit (who just isn’t a good Champion Hurdler, no matter what theories you cook up), Osana, Punjabi etc finish in the same postcode as the winner this year, it hasn’t been a “Classic” Champion Hurdle.
Katchit is yet to achieve Brave Inca or Hardy Eustaces form. Constantly referring to ackowledged all time greats like Sea Pidgeon and Istabraq in your comparisons doesn’t prove a thing. If we get in a debate about the merits of this years Guineas likelies you’ll probably spit back at me that my selection is no Brigadier!
Hardy never, never let (a peak) Harchibald cruise past him like Katchit did in Newcastle (when Hachibald was arguably past his best), to rubbish his achievements whilst bigging the current crop as vintage is ludicrous.
With most of your selections of ‘boats’ being recent, i’d say you are one of these typical old timers who are convinced "they don’t make em like they used to in my day", so its a waste of time arguing the point.
In my opinion the only reason you are waxing lyrical about this years event is because you picked up on Binocular early in his career, and haven’t stopped reminding anyone since.
I think you are saying if Crack Away Jack Jered or Binocular won the Champion hurdle against those mentioned they would have to be extra special? That’s half the field
Not at all- perhaps I should spell out my initial sentiments to you. If Katchit (who just isn’t a good Champion Hurdler, no matter what theories you cook up), Osana, Punjabi etc finish in the same postcode as the winner this year, it hasn’t been a “Classic” Champion Hurdle.
Surely its early to say Katchit isn’t a good Champion Hurdler ?
If Katchit were to beat a fully fit Sizing Europe this year and win the Champion Hurdle would that make him a good Champion Hurdler ?
or if he went on to win the next 3 renewals ( Big if but it could happen ) would he still not be a good Champion Hurdler ?
Maybe he isn’t a great Champion Hurdler, but imo saying he isnt a good Champion Hurdler is harsh, he’s the first horse in how many years to win the Triumph then the Champion the year after, maybe it wasnt a great Champion Hurdle he won but you can only beat whats put in front of you.
Irrelevant to some – you can win two on the trot with a host of Grade 1 winners in behind and still be classified as "a boat".
A lightly raced 6yo who is improving at a rate will win the 09 Champion Hurdle, jumps like a stag, travels like a dream and has a potent turn of
foot on good ground! You might still get 12/1 if you are lucky! Will be 3/1fav
come march with A.P McCoy in the saddle! JERED!!Jered is down to run at Down Royal on Friday. Has to concede weight to decent sorts in Cork All Star and Megans Joy though and both them have the benefit of a run. If he’s to have serious Champion Hurdle claims though you’d have to expect him to put those opponents to the sword.
He looked a horse with immense potential when winning on the bridle at both the Fairyhouse and Punchestown festivals. My concern about him would be that he is much better on faster ground and you are unlikely to get those conditions at Cheltenham anymore.
Noel’s poor strike rate at the festival given the quality of his runners would also be a worry. 
I am of the belief that Sizing Europe is the best hurdler around. His performance in the AIG was spectacular and he looked to be hacking along coming down the hill at Cheltenham before losing his action due to his injury. His reappearance in the Morgiana will be very interesting, but I just have a hunch that he might not be the easiest horse to keep sound, given that he is such a tall gangly horse and he can be quite clumsy over his hurdles.
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