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I personally don’t see why they couldn’t get rid of the Foxhunters especially as I’d imagine that more than any other faction of racing, hunting horses & old warhorses cross paths quite frequently.
Not entirely true. I’d need to check the list of hunting certificates issued since November 1st to be absolutely unequivocal on this, but at this remove I’d very much doubt that maybe more than one of the 12yo+ horses to take part in a Festival race other than the Foxhunters this year was also eligible for that race.
Certainly none of them to have run under Rules since November 1st would have been allowed; nor those to have won any £30,000+ pot in the last two and a half years; nor those without certification proving they’d hunted with a recognised pack at least four times this season; nor those who hadn’t won two Open points or won / finished runner-up in two hunter chases since the start of the 2007-8 campaign.
No race at the Festival has an inordinate amount to fear from the introduction of a veterans’ chase – the big handicaps are frequently (increasingly? Discuss.) the preserve of younger horses, the cross-country race attracts its own tranche of specialists, and the Foxhunters field (for the reasons outlined above) mostly arrives at Prestbury Park by very different means of eligibility.
Perhaps the perception that "hunting horses & old warhorses cross paths quite frequently" hints at a credibility issue that some may believe hunter chasing in general and the Foxhunters in particular increasingly struggles with – that of it being a last resting place for the superannuated.
Given that 18 out of the last 20 winners of the race have been aged 10 or younger, and only 27% (19-71) of the runners in the last three renewals would have been eligible for a 12yo+ race, it’s not a view for which I have the greatest amount of sympathy.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
On a more serious note, it’s interesting to see how the new races are becoming more difficult to get into than the existing races they are supposed to complement.
It’s not just the additional races that have become hard(er) to aim a horse at. Has anyone else noticed how compacted a handicap the Kim Muir seems to have become?
I think I’m right in saying, though please correct me if not, that the 125 off which Cloudy Lane won in 2007 wouldn’t even have got him a run in at least two of the three renewals since then, such is the volume of horses near the top of the race’s 140 ceiling that is being entered.
Bad news for connections of Qhilimar this year, of course, who may have thought the 126 he was ramped up to for this Newbury win would be enough to scrape in off a reasonable weight. Good news, though, for those who took a dim view of the same connections’ win with Hiddensee at Wincanton a week earlier and regarded Qhilimar’s exclusion as divine justice of a sort.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I don’t mind the 4 day Festival or the new races, but I’m not sure we need a Veterans race. We’ve already seen the likes of Monet’s Garden and Our Vic take on and beat the younger brigade, so I don’t see why they need their own race. But I guess you could say that about mares.
Perhaps the perception that "hunting horses & old warhorses cross paths quite frequently" hints at a credibility issue that some may believe hunter chasing in general and the Foxhunters in particular increasingly struggles with – that of it being a last resting place for the superannuated.
Given that 18 out of the last 20 winners of the race have been aged 10 or younger, and only 27% (19-71) of the runners in the last three renewals would have been eligible for a 12yo+ race, it’s not a view for which I have the greatest amount of sympathy.
gcInteresting. I have to be honest & say that I’d always assumed that hunter chasers meant old horses, thanks for setting me right on that one. I think there may be a perception that hunting in general is not a young man’s pursuit so it would fit that the horses aren’t young either.
There now follows a serious question which is not meant to be glib or sarcastic in any way:
Has the quality of hunter chasers been affected by the ‘hunting ban’?
I don’t mind the 4 day Festival or the new races, but I’m not sure we need a Veterans race. We’ve already seen the likes of Monet’s Garden and Our Vic take on and beat the younger brigade, so I don’t see why they need their own race. But I guess you could say that about mares.
I’d possibly be proven wrong but I think if they were to hold a ‘veterans race’ at Cheltenham in 2011, it would be an Our Vic victory parade were he to take part.
Maybe that’s why I’m keen on the idea!
I think a veterans race is a great idea. The Foxhunters should stay – it’s the amateurs Gold Cup – and what a trophy the winner gets!
Fully agree with Dalry Bear (and I rarely do with a Rangers fan!).
My first choice would be the 3 day festival; it just worked better on all counts. Every race hugely competitive.
Races like the Pipe Handicap and the Jewson have added little to the week except we now have two Mildmay of Flete’s; one restricted to novices.
I agree.
I would actually prefer to see a veterans race rather than the mares hurdle, X country or the newer handicaps.
If only they would bring back the three days…
We all know that at this rate they’ll have a race for seahorses!
Zip
I’d possibly be proven wrong but I think if they were to hold a ‘veterans race’ at Cheltenham in 2011, it would be an Our Vic victory parade were he to take part.
Maybe that’s why I’m keen on the idea!
To be honest, I don’t think Our Vic owes anybody anything and if he was retired today I think it would be richly deserved. While I have be critical in the past of those who slam the constant running of older horses, I think he has been totally overdone himself the last few months or so and my tune has changed a little.
There now follows a serious question which is not meant to be glib or sarcastic in any way:
Has the quality of hunter chasers been affected by the ‘hunting ban’?
A fair question. In as much as there are that many 130+ rated animals (and in a few cases this season 150+) entering the sphere having hit the brick wall in Rules handicaps, or else are being sent back this route following injury-blighted recent histories, I couldn’t honestly say the quality threshold of hunter chases and point-to-points has been denuded to any degree since the ban.
A trainer like Jonjo will still use the North Ledbury hunt as a means to get some badly handicapped or jaded performers qualified for these amateur races, and on that basis the fact his horses will be chasing a scent rather than live quarry on the four (or more) occasions they are hunted to get their certificates is probably of very, very little consequence to him.
As regards the size of the pool of horses from which hunter chasers and point-to-pointers are drawn, a decent rule of thumb would be to check how many certificates have been issued pre- and post-ban. The total has wobbled a bit since the bans, but not compounded to a massive extent.
2000-1: 3902
2001-2: 4098
2002-3: 4022 (NB hunting ban introduced in Scotland via the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002, on 01/08/02)
2003-4: 3896
2004-5: 3981 (NB hunting ban introduced in England and Wales 18/02/05)
2005-6: 3841
2006-7: 3852
2007-8: 3926
2008-9: 3754
2009-10: 3515 (and still rising)(Source:
Hunter Chasers and Point-to-Pointers
, 2002 editions onwards)
HTH,
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Chief Dan George’s warm up for his WH Chase win was in a Vets’ Chase I believe.
At Donny.
I just wish these bunny-huggers would get a life FFS.
If they are going to keep it to four days then why not a vets race?
I would say 12 and upwards and have had to ran at a festival before.Then we would have proper old faves and not just old plodders that normally would running round Fontwell etc.
Not that I have anything against Fontwell!!I’d possibly be proven wrong but I think if they were to hold a ‘veterans race’ at Cheltenham in 2011, it would be an Our Vic victory parade were he to take part.
Maybe that’s why I’m keen on the idea!
Bah, Mister McGoldrick would eat him for breakfast!
I’d possibly be proven wrong but I think if they were to hold a ‘veterans race’ at Cheltenham in 2011, it would be an Our Vic victory parade were he to take part.
Maybe that’s why I’m keen on the idea!
Bah, Mister McGoldrick would eat him for breakfast!
This little exchange right here is why a Veterans Chase at the Festival is a good idea. Everyone has a favourite old trooper, let’s give them a showcase.
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