- This topic has 336 replies, 80 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Who says we won’t be talking about Imperial Commander? Awesome record round Cheltenham, and young enough to win another Gold Cup. First horse to win the Ryanair and then the Gold Cup. Plus I had him (see previous post on Page 15) *smug*
I have to agree with what Seventy Four has said; I’ve found all the hype quite tedious for a long time, but feel terribly sad now [although very happy for Paddy Brennan; a certain amount of hubris today imo]. It took me a long time to admit to myself how good Kauto Star was, and two things made that sink home. One was to see his record of runs in a book I bought last week; the endless record of 1111111’s with an occasional UR or 2 surprised me, and then a film of him at Ditcheat, not cantering or anything but just walking out of the stable yard with such an athletic swagger and sense of joi de vivre. I’m so glad that he survived that horrendous fall today [thank goodness the ground staff ensured we had safe jumping ground all week]. But I now feel that I’m looking at this golden age of steeplechasing as if it’s in the past, and somehow unreal.
- Total Posts 17716
Best day of my life i got 25/1 in October bloody fantastic
Me too, been backing him since paddy power 08. I feel like i’ve won the thing myself i follow his runs (even when not betting) religiously.
I agree with NTD. Channel 4 and the Racing Press have been attempting to turn the Gold Cup into some sort of racing equivalent to the FA Cup final in which everybody has to be one side or other and has to nail their colours to the mast. This rubbish of selling Denman or Kauto scarves at the course is cringe-worthy.
Racing is not Football, and never will be thank God.
Very well said David !
I have been preaching for ages about this kind of thing and the Racing Press and television pundits get swept along with all the hype, presumably on the basis that if they repeat the same thing over and over again, we will start to believe it !
It was the technique used by Goebbels during World War II (i.e. attempted brainwashing) and it is unfortunate just how many people seemed to fall for it.
Reading some of the newspapers and coverage of the race, anyone would be forgiven for thinking that there were only two runners in this year’s race – and that Imperial Commander’s chance was so slim as to barely be worth mentioning, if you indeed were even aware that there were another 9 runners apart from the Nicholls hopes.I noticed the cringeworthy front page of the Racing Post this morning – they’d clearly decided several months ago what they were going to have on it today and nothing on earth would have allowed them to change that, despite Denman’s display at Newbury (which naturally disturbed the carefully planned script for the build-up).
Today has proved once and for all that Kauto Star, good animal that he is, is certainly not the best steeplechaser of all time (when did you ever hear of Arkle falling or unseating his rider ?), and though Golden Miller did have a few mishaps with jumping, those were mainly at Aintree over very stiff fences. Let’s also not forget that the Miller not only won 5 Gold Cups in succession (not 2 out of 4 attempts), but also the Grand National in record time and under top weight.
Credit to Denman today for doing better than I imagined he would, but I believe he will always be outpaced by any horse with speed (such as Imperial Commander),and I cannot see him winning another Gold Cup at Cheltenham.In fact, when you look at the chasers queuing up like Weapons Amnesty, Long Run, Punchestowns and Burton Port (to name those from the RSA Chase), I’ll be surprised if Denman is placed next year, as an 11 year old.
I also think that Carruthers is still a young horse and did well to finish 4th – he should surely improve a bit with age and if he manages to cut out jumping errors.
I have to agree with what Seventy Four has said; I’ve found all the hype quite tedious for a long time, but feel terribly sad now [although very happy for Paddy Brennan; a certain amount of hubris today imo]. It took me a long time to admit to myself how good Kauto Star was, and two things made that sink home. One was to see his record of runs in a book I bought last week; the endless record of 1111111’s with an occasional UR or 2 surprised me, and then a film of him at Ditcheat, not cantering or anything but just walking out of the stable yard with such an athletic swagger and sense of joi de vivre. I’m so glad that he survived that horrendous fall today [thank goodness the ground staff ensured we had safe jumping ground all week]. But I now feel that I’m looking at this golden age of steeplechasing as if it’s in the past, and somehow unreal.
Try not to feel too down Moehat.
Today’s result takes nothing away from Kauto Star’s past achievements – he is still the same horse with the same ability who has compiled an excellent record over the last few seasons, and today was simply not his day.
I will watch the highlights tonight (I haven’t seen the race yet), but am very glad that Kauto Star emerged unscathed and lives to fight another day. If he never ran again, he would live long in many people’s memories for the pleasure he has given them.
It is inevitable that any chapter closes eventually (I felt like that in the late 1970’s after The Dikler, Red Rum, L’Escargot, Spanish Steps etc retired), but another will open soon no doubt, and in the years to come, you will be able to look back with tremendous fondness to this period in your racing life.
In the meantime, why not pour yourself a nice glass of wine and salute Imperial Commander !
- Total Posts 17716
I have been preaching for ages about this kind of thing and the Racing Press and television pundits get swept along with all the hype, presumably on the basis that if they repeat the same thing over and over again, we will start to believe it !
You have been preaching? maybe you should get a job with the BHA considering you seem to know everything so well. The pundits are not getting swept with the hype – if you hadn’t realise times change and evolve its about giving the public a chancee to be apart of the sport considering its so hard to get into.
It was the technique used by Goebbels during World War II (i.e. attempted brainwashing) and it is unfortunate just how many people seemed to fall for it.
So the BHA have used a technique from the war to enhance our sport in 2010? I don’t think many people are brainwaished;
reading some of the newspapers and coverage of the race, anyone would be forgiven for thinking that there were only two runners in this year’s race
Kauto Star rated 193 – £2m+ prize money
Denman rated 182 – £900,000+ prize moneyName me a better racehorse than these two in the same field today? heck go back 5 years and give me a better national jumps horse because you’ll be looking hard for one.
Imperial Commander’s chance was so slim as to barely be worth mentioning, if you indeed were even aware that there were another 9 runners apart from the Nicholls hopes
No, everyone knew that Imperial Commander was a good horse and the trainer told us what a top horse he was and that he would run a big race but is he a Denman? NO, is he a Kauto? NO, he doesnt have the profile to market and hasn’t done enough but by god if he wants a 3 way campaign next year he’ll get one.
Today has proved once and for all that Kauto Star, good animal that he is, is certainly not the best steeplechaser of all time (when did you ever hear of Arkle falling or unseating his rider ?), and though Golden Miller did have a few mishaps with jumping
Right, so I take it Kauto Star isn’t aloud the mishaps that Golden Miller can have maybe because you’re biased towards Golden Miller like I am to Kauto Star but regardless they are both the pinicle of throughbred history, if four King Georges was that easy to come by then you’d have any tom dick and harry winning them – a year is a long time, 2 years is longer, 4 years is twice as long and thats long enough for a challenger to come along and they didn’t.
You had your day and plenty of posts are going to be influenced like yours but I’ll let you enjoy the success because you wont be winning a Gold Cup next year.
Delighted for Nige
Imperial Commander held an entry in
last year’s
Grand National which should have told the ‘will he get the trip’ mob something
The lad knows a thing or two about staying chasers
It’s to be hoped you’re not a greengrocer Mr Wilson, cos that’s some sour grapes you’ve got there.
- Total Posts 17716
Intelligent discussion people?
I understand that people have won and lost serious money.
As i said on page 15 imperial has been my favourite horse for 2 years and i’ve won a lot of money today but i know that Kauto is one of the best and most versatile ever, 4 king georges 2 gold cups and if he had been hurt today i would be seriously upset.
I can understand why imperial fans get angry over what’s said about his kempton runs. He’s the opposite of Nacarat when it comes to that track lol
Have to say I feel pretty deflated now. Kauto and Denman will be 11 next year so think we may have seen the best of them and an the era may be over. I hope not but at least I have been lucky enough to see both of them
I am over the proverbial moon for paddy brennan/ntd today they have broken the dreaded disease of seconditus, i was shaking after the cup , crying after the foxhunters and rather drunk after pigeon island , over 840/1 treble today , so pleased for conections.
Well my dream got some things right…
Kauto’s fall…
Denman’s one pace…
And Mon Mome finishing in the first three
Just got back from Cheltenham. As always, an uncomfortable day out due to overcrowding (Cheltenham, please look at this!), but it’s the Gold Cup and you have to expect this.
The Gold Cup turned into something of an anti-climax, really. The atmosphere was dead after, suffice to say, the biggest acknowledgment after the race was the sight of Kauto Star coming back unscathed after his tumble!
The crowd gave him a wonderful round of applause. They have so much respect for what he has achieved.
For those of you who say he never travelled. Completely disagree with that. He travelled and jumped until the eighth beautifully, including a few of his trademark ‘stand-offs’. I was stood on the grandstand side next to the rail (near the last fence) and all I heard was an almighty gasp…then silence when he made that mistake.
That fence took it out of him. As they went out onto the second circuit, my mate said to me "He’s back in it". Kauto looked to be travelling easier, but I turned to him and said "He hasn’t recovered from that blunder". You could Ruby was never happy after that (taking him to the outside, then back in again), but as always Kauto battled and battled, but you can’t make a mistake like that and expect to win a Gold Cup.
How many horse would have recovered from that in a Gold Cup and still got back on terms and been only 3L down four out?
I laugh at those of you writing his racing eulogy. The three mile novice chasers have a lot to prove and Imperial Commander is only a year younger than Kauto. If Denman is targeted at the National next year, Kauto is still in with a shout.
I will tell you this right now, Kauto Star will start favourite for the 2011 Gold Cup. Take the 6-1, is my advice.
Kauto looked wonderful beforehand and Denman, along with Calgary Bay, were the picks of the paddock.
Denman looked incredible and on very good terms with himself. That is how good he is at this stage of his career. Paul Nicholls said you will never see him blitz a field again and he was telling the truth.
He ran a cracking race and lost nothing in defeat.
As for the others. It’s hard to get excited about Imperial Commander because he isn’t a superstar. Sorry. He’s won seven races under rules – six of them at Cheltenham. Make no mistake, he deserved this success and was the best horse on the day, but 4-1 for next years race? Terrible value.
What an effort form Mon Mome. Delighted to see the horse run such a good race before Aintree and he looked well. Cooldine, lovely looking horse, but he beat a poor RSA field last year and that’s just about how good he is. Joncol now looks the best of the Irish three milers.
Lord Oaksey must be chuffed to bits with the run of Carruthers and Calgary Bay ran a stormer, too. You can tell he’s a bit of a fractious animal and he pulled hard early in the race and hit a couple. Henrietta said the main target next season is the Grand National – the 2011 running of that race is something to really look forward too!
A disappointing result for me, not because Kauto lost, but…I don’t know why!!
Can’t agree with you about Cooldine, he was far too keen and his chances were gone on the second circuit down the back straight, if he learns to settle he could be a contender.
JohnJ
- Total Posts 17716
Just got back from Cheltenham. As always, an uncomfortable day out due to overcrowding (Cheltenham, please look at this!), but it’s the Gold Cup and you have to expect this.
The Gold Cup turned into something of an anti-climax, really. The atmosphere was dead after, suffice to say, the biggest acknowledgment after the race was the sight of Kauto Star coming back unscathed after his tumble!
The crowd gave him a wonderful round of applause. They have so much respect for what he has achieved.
For those of you who say he never travelled. Completely disagree with that. He travelled and jumped until the eighth beautifully, including a few of his trademark ‘stand-offs’. I was stood on the grandstand side next to the rail (near the last fence) and all I heard was an almighty gasp…then silence when he made that mistake.
That fence took it out of him. As they went out onto the second circuit, my mate said to me "He’s back in it". Kauto looked to be travelling easier, but I turned to him and said "He hasn’t recovered from that blunder". You could Ruby was never happy after that (taking him to the outside, then back in again), but as always Kauto battled and battled, but you can’t make a mistake like that and expect to win a Gold Cup.
How many horse would have recovered from that in a Gold Cup and still got back on terms and been only 3L down four out?
I laugh at those of you writing his racing eulogy. The three mile novice chasers have a lot to prove and Imperial Commander is only a year younger than Kauto. If Denman is targeted at the National next year, Kauto is still in with a shout.
I will tell you this right now, Kauto Star will start favourite for the 2011 Gold Cup. Take the 6-1, is my advice.
Kauto looked wonderful beforehand and Denman, along with Calgary Bay, were the picks of the paddock.
Denman looked incredible and on very good terms with himself. That is how good he is at this stage of his career. Paul Nicholls said you will never see him blitz a field again and he was telling the truth.
He ran a cracking race and lost nothing in defeat.
As for the others. It’s hard to get excited about Imperial Commander because he isn’t a superstar. Sorry. He’s won seven races under rules – six of them at Cheltenham. Make no mistake, he deserved this success and was the best horse on the day, but 4-1 for next years race? Terrible value.
What an effort form Mon Mome. Delighted to see the horse run such a good race before Aintree and he looked well. Cooldine, lovely looking horse, but he beat a poor RSA field last year and that’s just about how good he is. Joncol now looks the best of the Irish three milers.
Lord Oaksey must be chuffed to bits with the run of Carruthers and Calgary Bay ran a stormer, too. You can tell he’s a bit of a fractious animal and he pulled hard early in the race and hit a couple. Henrietta said the main target next season is the Grand National – the 2011 running of that race is something to really look forward too!
A disappointing result for me, not because Kauto lost, but…I don’t know why!!
Does Kauto have a better price for king george after today? cause if he does, everyone should take it!
Maybe Imperial is not a star but he’s a gold cup winner and his left handed form is second to none.
4/1 is short and he’ll get longer after a bad right handed run but if he wins next year it’ll be a good price.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.