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Is now a good time run around and panic?
How would you change things? Or do we all need to accept ( I can’t) that like the earth, racing is coming to an end?
People like Michael Owen should be seen leading the charge.
If a substitute good (the FOBTS) vanishes, what happens to the price of the current loss leader? What happens to its suppliers bargaining power? I’ll give you a clue – the answer isn’t that it goes down.
You’re viewing that ‘loss leader’ in the way normal retailers use it – purposely pricing a product to take a loss for promotional purposes; that’s not what bookmakers are doing:
Racing produces minuscule margins and in numerous cases, losses because of three key factors:
GPT backfired – it raised turnover by 40% and lopped margins by about 10%.
Post GPT Betfair began taking a real hold shaving margins even more.
SiS lost the monopoly on pictures and bookies ended up paying media rights at about twice the previous rate.
It’s a simple business sum – income from horseracing barely covers costs and in many cases doesn’t. Unlike Tesco, bookmakers cannot simply say we will now sell milk/bananas/bread at their ‘real’ price – there is no choice here. The SP is the SP – a bookie can’t reduce that SP by 10% or 15% – he has no mechanic for increasing his prices to the customer.
Racing costs too much. That’s why bookmakers no longer promote it in the way racing wants. If racing collapsed tomorrow bookmakers would be much much better off in their bottom line. No racing? Sure some punters would disappear, but not that many. I think 99% of the FOBT players would remain and most of the horseplayers would transfer to something else.
Anyway, let’s hope we never get to find out what will happen.
If you look at the gambling products that have thrived in this country post-GPT, they are the ones where margins have decreased the most: football and numbers rackets. Lower margins have been good for profit there. Racing’s margins have barely budged and just look uncompetitive these days.
If you look at countries where racing remains relatively healthy, they all have bans on competing betting products. The countries with a racing malaise have all allowed the numbers rackets to proliferate. To suggest that British racing somehow need FOBTs is plain nonsense.
There was 10 billion bet on UK Racing in 2011.
What the **** are you boys on about???
There was 10 billion bet on UK Racing in 2011.
What the **** are you boys on about???
We’re discussing a central plank of policy for both British Racing’s regulators and its trade paper. Namely to lobby for, support and deny the oxygen of publicity to those who have anything negative to say about fruit machines in bookmakers.
Apparently we’re all doomed if the FOBTs are taken away and betting on British racing will plummet if, for example, this street here lost half of it’s betting shops as a result of restrictive legislation concerning FOBTs:
… and how boring the sport will be for it…
Not for the first time yesterday the scum layed a dead horse (Breakoutthebooze) from 16/1 to 14/1 to enable them to levy a 5p deduction.
Are you sure the sport would be more boring for their absence?There was 10 billion bet on UK Racing in 2011.
What the **** are you boys on about???
We’re discussing a central plank of policy for both British Racing’s regulators and its trade paper. Namely to lobby for, support and deny the oxygen of publicity to those who have anything negative to say about fruit machines in bookmakers.
Apparently we’re all doomed if the FOBTs are taken away and betting on British racing will plummet if, for example, this street here lost half of it’s betting shops as a result of restrictive legislation concerning FOBTs:
Glenn, as there are no speed humps along the Woodbridge Road and the nearest pedestrian crossing is some distance, then it was probably deemed cheaper to allow shops adjacent than risk being sued by a punter as a result of an injury whilst trying to traverse the thoroughfare in order to place a bet.
If by bookies you mean "betting shop", Ricky, I wouldn’t have a clue nor do I give a flying fig.
All I know is that there was 10 billion quid worth of betting interest in UK horseracing in 2011. A big number of zeros…
The source and location of where that money is gambled has moved away from the betting shop, which is why negotiations began to find a replacement to that source, the levy. Commercial deals that reflect an agreed value between the sport, the racecourses and the betting companies. One was signed in July worth 40 million. More will follow.
Fooking hilarious to think that by going back to extel commentaries and six races a day, the betting shop punter will give up cartoons, machines and football and prop up the levy for sufficient amounts ever again.
You boys are barking….
Quality Cav , really enjoyed that one ,,,,
Now just suppose for a sec that Joe is right , and one of the big bookies says no more Guv we are off , its cartoons and dogs for us , what then ???
What happens then my son ….well for sure the Bha wont be dancing a jig to the Kilfenora Ceili band ….
I am not that sure Joe is way off or barking …he could be spot on
Imo
cheers
Ricky
The bookmakers can only run with virtual racing as they own media rights to Horse Racing, if, big if that’s Joe is right then as sole owner of Racing Media rights we could ban Virtual Racing for copyright infringement.
Now, if I were to go out and sell a top in the same design as Frankel’s silks I’d be hung out to dry in the court of law but it’s seen as perfectly fine to have the great names such as Dancing Brave, Desert Orchid, Bustino running around as cartoons
Those legends didn’t run for Virtual Racing.
Remember, whatever the service into shops – audio only commentaries or cinema size screens with 3d – all that matters to bookmakers is a level playing field.
I worked for SiS when they started. Switch-ons of live pics (I’m sure a few of you will recall), were planned on a postcode basis but someone always suffered and bookies would ring us going absolutely crazy because a rival down the road had just got pictures and he had another month to wait. His shop was empty.
That attraction of live pics hasn’t quite held its appeal for punters. Howard Chisholm, no fool, I assure you, has never taken TurfTv and he successfully runs an estate of 50 shops.
Next time you are in a shop and a race is on, look and see how many people in there actually stop to watch it – often it’s not that many.
I’ve even spoken to punters who prefer audio (something to do with prolonged hope if you can’t see yours struggling a distance back).
If every bookie cancelled pictures and went audio only, I’d be very confident that turnover would barely be affected – all offering the same is the key.
Sure £10bn can be bet a year on racing but that figure just emphasises even more starkly how hard it is for bookies to make money from it. I’ve mentioned before that I know of a pretty big indie in the midlands who closed a shop last year which was taking £1.2m annually. Rent & rates weren’t that big – it was an out-of-town shop – but he simply could not get a profit from it.
If racing is so convinced that bookies are parasites depriving the sport of its rightful share of an overflowing money pot, why doesn’t the sport get together and start buying its own shops? The demand criteria has gone – the market is open to all, let money be put where mouths are.
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