- This topic has 45 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
In 2011, Ladbrokes’ 2127 UK shops enjoyed £860 profit per week from each of their FOBT (fixed-odds betting terminal) machines – presumably with the legal limit of four in every location. That’s an almost-ridiculous £380 million pounds of machine profit per year (Channel 4’s Despatches program reported it as £359 million). Furthermore, in the first quarter of 2012, profits in that sphere had continued to grow exponentially – up 22%.
The increasing irrelevance of horse racing to these outlets is becoming very clear and the burgeoning online market doesn’t offer any better news. There too, racing is beginning to become a bit-part player. In last years’ figures, Ladbrokes couldn’t even be bothered to separate Horse Racing from it’s general ‘Sportsbook’ category and even that, which included massively popular betting sports such as football, accounted for just 38% of the total market behind casino, poker, bingo and ‘games’. Racing, its seems is now just a fraction of a fraction.
This won’t continue. Common sense dictates that one major bookmaker, maybe online-only or maybe even with an estate of shops, will at some point tell racing thanks for everything, but we just don’t need you anymore. We don’t need the expense of showing racing, we don’t need the hassle of Levy payments and we don’t need to chase an ever-decreasing level of business. This will be the tipping point: when one bookmaker goes, the others will follow.
Racing increasingly means nothing to the majority (and it is now a consdiderable and growing majority) who bet with this country’s major bookmakers. Why bother exploring the delights of such an arcane sport when an easily-understood plethora of straightforward gambling opportunities is laid in front of you?
I believe the disengagement of bookmakers from the industry that once drove their business is totally inevitable.
Mike
Good,
The sooner Bookmakers are no longer apart of our sport the better, then we can fund an exchange driven Tote by the Government.
Give it 5-7 years and we’ll be free from the Bookies.
Think how much more we could put into the sport if there was no bookmakers? we don’t need them and eventually they’ll drop the Horse Racing product.
Can’t come soon enough in my opinion, I’d relish the opportunity of seeing £6,000 prize money for Class 6 Handicaps, better breeding industry, overwhelming surge in new customers, better funding for charities etc.
As much as I would like to see a pari-mutuel monopoly run by racing itself, they do not have the business acumen to make it successful. The betting lobby in parliament is still notoriously strong (MP’s with a penchant for gambling are easily bought), so any attempt to "deprive" the punter of choice will be rigorously filibustered in the interests of "democracy".
As much as I would like to see a pari-mutuel monopoly run by racing itself, they do not have the business acumen to make it successful. The betting lobby in parliament is still notoriously strong (MP’s with a penchant for gambling are easily bought), so any attempt to "deprive" the punter of choice will be rigorously filibustered in the interests of "democracy".
Racing lacks a the business acumen? please, the world of business isn’t rocket science.
The only reason racing can’t move forward is because of Bookmakers and those in charge will only falter and take the flack until things change.
I was once told by a leader of the worlds largest logistic companies in a seminar that once you start restricting the operations of you company there is only one way and that’s down.
It’s true, we’re restricted by the fact we’re so dependent on the bookmakers, we can’t grow.
If the leaders of racing have ample business skill, how come Racing for Change is so embarrassing.
As much as I would like to see a pari-mutuel monopoly run by racing itself, they do not have the business acumen to make it successful. The betting lobby in parliament is still notoriously strong (MP’s with a penchant for gambling are easily bought), so any attempt to "deprive" the punter of choice will be rigorously filibustered in the interests of "democracy".
You miss my point – you are coming from the view that racing is valuable to bookmakers and they would never let a pari-mutuel monopoly take over.
I’m saying that at some point in the medium term, I don’t think racing will be remotely bothered about a PM system because they won’t want to bet on racing anyway. They won’t be lobbying MP’s because racing will no longer be a product of theirs.
You are correct about the malleability of MP’s: an all-party committee have already recommended further gaming liberalisation back in July. But that was all about how to get more FOBT’s in to betting shops and casinos. Didn’t mention racing.
Mike
When the normal class citizen thinks of Horse Racing they envisage high street bookmakers, it’s a fact that they put 1+1 together.
Whenever I’ve gone into a highstreet bookmaker it’s nothing but a dosshouse with locals getting free tea and occasional stray coming in and getting turned away for a £100 bet.
Is this the image we want? no, we need to break away from the Bookmaking industry and start funding the betting cafe’s that are slowly trying to grow in London – a clean, professional, safe, relaxing establishment that puts the glitz, glamour and money of the horse racing industry into a high street image.
The bookmakers have got their "new product" FOBT, they can’t have everything and if they had to drop anything it would be Horse Racing given our excessive demands that have become ideological in the recent economy with the product failing to live up to its reputation, why should they fun Horse Racing with FOBT profits?
Reluctance & hesitancy to fund Horse Racing has not surprisingly seen a dramatic decline in an era of the quick fix punter who wants fast cash with the long term and strategic thinkers now a minority who are having their accounts shut down at the slightest sign of profit, it’s not a way to treat your customers.
We can be better, we can be greater, we need to project the image that Horse Racing is a powerful industry who is being suppressed by oligopolistic firms and if there’s ever been a greater opportunity to gain sole ownership of horse racing it’s now! whilst FOBT’s are a short term problem just like the growth of Poker it will all soon decline and whilst we won’t have seen any of the profits from FOBT into Horse Racing why should they come back down to earth with our product to rely on?
That’s why we should have sole ownership through a pari-mutual system where we call the shots, in 10-15 years we’ll lease out what races the bookmakers can advertise or create books for and then demand a % tax of their profits.
If the leaders of racing have ample business skill, how come Racing for Change is so embarrassing.
How can they be productive when they have no money?
Stop trolling.
Mike, I can see the point but sometimes it is easier to leave the chains of oppression on the weak than to grant the freedom to self-destruct.
If the leaders of racing have ample business skill, how come Racing for Change is so embarrassing.
How can they be productive when they have no money?
Stop trolling.
Racing for Change implies that its purpose is to alter the perception of the potential consumer. The fact that it has failed to do so is due to a lack of ideas rather than a lack of funding. In the current economic climate horse racing is regarded as an out-moded, indulgent luxury by the vast majority. Whereas those already with an interest in horse racing look at Racing for Change as a waste of scarce resources or a means of making an easy money.
If the leaders of racing have ample business skill, how come Racing for Change is so embarrassing.
How can they be productive when they have no money?
Stop trolling.
Racing for Change implies that its purpose is to alter the perception of the potential consumer. The fact that it has failed to do so is due to a lack of ideas rather than a lack of funding. In the current economic climate horse racing is regarded as an out-moded, indulgent luxury by the vast majority. Whereas those already with an interest in horse racing look at Racing for Change as a waste of scarce resources or a means of making an easy money.
I think you’re slightly confusing real world with internet world.
There’s been nothing in the real world to suggest people are unhappy with Racing For Change?
Gotta wonder where you get this b/s from to be honest.
Book makers put the absolute minimum back into racing so in this sense good riddance, a re introduction of a tote system, so that the money is going back into racing is in order. This would certainly help the prize money issue to be resolved. Exchanges should be charged for every book they host, other wise there is the minimal amount of finance returned to the sport. Once this is in place, a campaign to make FOBT illegal should be put in place as these machines only fuel an ever increasing addiction to gambling, cost the state in the long run.
The bookies fade away, a tote system installed, prize money solved, still leaves one problem. Bookmaker outlets work as a great recruitment agency for new followers of the sport. With out the bold corporations plastered on every high street in every town and city in the country, who will ever hear about racing?
One solution to this problem is to make the coverage free to all in their home. This would be possible with the racing channel and tote acting as one company. Full coverage of every race in the UK available to any one for free will definitely increase popularity and revenue on a major scale.
A way of ensuring that the all the money bet on racing goes through the tote is to make it illegal to run a book on a race with out a additional permit bought from the race course/ Racing channel/ the new tote. As these bookmakers choose not to help the funding of the sport why should they be allowed to profit?
On course bookmakers could continue to work in exactly the same way that they are today, renting pitches and setting their own prices. With the exchanges being charged a good chunk of their profits, this would help drive down the exchange price and restore an equilibrium with in the betting market.
A booming business and self sustained economy with in its own right, racing will cost the bookmakers a % of their income forcing them to offer shorter and shorter prices on other sports, hopefully encouraging more punters to turn to racing."
I admire everyone’s optimism regarding a Tote monopoly and as always there are some interesting thoughts on the matter but I’ve a few questions for those proposing the Tote Monopoly?
a) Presumably the Tote monopoly will come when the bookies leave racing as there’s no custom there, how does racing get people to bet on a product bet to a ridiculous percentage (AKA Tote takeout) when they can bet on a football match bet to 101.5%?
b) Shouldn’t racing focus on getting the product in order ie. being able to enforce lifetime bans on anyone found guilty of corruption rather than letting them back into the sport 6 months later?
c) Why would Joe Public bet on a sport that relies on deceptive tactics, exploitation of the rules and has an active press that won’t say a word about this?
d) Unless any Tote monopoly is set up to go "live" as soon as the bookmakers leave racing there will be a period when there is virtually no prize money (prize money coming from the levy which is largely bookmaker funded or from the image rights which are paid to racecourses from the levy). How does racing survive during this period assuming that the owners/trainers are correct in telling us that they are all really struggling in the current climate of £1,600+ prize money?
Thanks
Martin
Ok Irish Stamp, i’ll have a go, but not promising anything.
a) Presumably the Tote monopoly will come when the bookies leave racing as there’s no custom there, how does racing get people to bet on a product bet to a ridiculous percentage (AKA Tote takeout) when they can bet on a football match bet to 101.5%?
Well in an ideal world the newly proposed tote system will take over before it is all to late. Book percentages will not deter Joe Bloggs punter form horse racing. Is what will deter Joe Bloggs is a lack of exposure / coverage. If hypothetically racing was free and available to all in their homes this would generate a much larger following, much like the good old days before the racing channels. This could only work if the Racing channel / New Tote / and race courses were working as on entity or company.
Standard Punters do not see 125% book all they see are the odds. Odds on on Man United or 8/1 in the 19:40 @ Wolvs? That’s the financial betting decision most punters are faced with, they do not see true odds weighed up against odds.
b) Shouldn’t racing focus on getting the product in order ie. being able to enforce lifetime bans on anyone found guilty of corruption rather than letting them back into the sport 6 months later?
I think this is a different subject all together.
c) Why would Joe Public bet on a sport that relies on deceptive tactics, exploitation of the rules and has an active press that won’t say a word about this?
Do you mean form? Joe Public would disregard the complications if the coverage was readily available.
d) Unless any Tote monopoly is set up to go "live" as soon as the bookmakers leave racing there will be a period when there is virtually no prize money (prize money coming from the levy which is largely bookmaker funded or from the image rights which are paid to racecourses from the levy). How does racing survive during this period assuming that the owners/trainers are correct in telling us that they are all really struggling in the current climate of £1,600+ prize money?
This will be very difficult i think to survive, which is why something must be done sooner rather than later.
Thanks for the reply Itsawar – agree with you on a lot of it but given the points made in response to my first question we as racing supporters would be relying on punters who are no longer interested in racing (hence bookies have stopped bothering with racing) or we’d be relying on gambling getting much bigger than it is at the moment (think sports betting, bingo, gaming rather than betting on racing) and the market share of racing continuing to shrink.
The free to air racing will raise more costs and the info we have in UK racing isn’t free either – important things like accurate going, accurate distances etc. unless of course a punter intends to play the racing like a lottery and just pick a random number and back it
Martin
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.