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Yes I totally agree SL.
I would be amazed if the horse has shown any of those traits at home though, or at least not to the magnetude shown yesterday. Any trainer would be barmy to send a horse to the track if showing the same traits at home, in fact it would be very foolish.
Let’s just hope yesterday was a one off and be thankful that nobody, including the horse, was seriously hurt.
Mike
Unfortunately though Mikky trainers aren’t quite the beings with halos they sometimes portray! I’ve seen trainers send plenty of horses to the track who have displayed worse traits than bolting & fly leaping at home, believe me!
Thank you for the words of confidence SL and MM.
Id be inclined to agree that the horse has probably been wellbehaved at home. If it had a ‘rep’ at home then i’m pretty sure it would have been ridden and therefore looked after by one of the strong male riders in the yard (especially as it is obviously viewed as a bit of a tool). Their were only girls with it at the races yesterday.
The majority of horses only come to themselves after 1 or 2 runs. Its widely known that a horse will behave first time out, as they are generally in awe of its surroudings. If they are going to play up it will be 2nd time out.You only get a true idea of a horses future behaviour after 2/3 runs, at home and on the track. The majority of horses will get keener at home after their first few runs.
Obviously yesterday was a huge overreaction by the horse even allowing for this.
Fabrian is like that every time he goes up the gallop, yet as I said before, it can be managed. There are ways around thses types of animals, but I have never seen anything like that yesterday, and the fact that it is a once raced 2 yo worries me more than if he had been an older, more experienced type. It simply can’t be put down to him being a bit strong, as basically it is impossible at that age when being ridden by such an experienced jockey.Unfortunately though Mikky trainers aren’t quite the beings with halos they sometimes portray! I’ve seen trainers send plenty of horses to the track who have displayed worse traits than bolting & fly leaping at home, believe me!
Wow, how stupid and irresponsible of them. I guess I will have to stop being so naive.
I just believe there is always a reason why a horse bolts, perhaps he is just a bit of a fruitcake!
It will be interesting to see what the trainer tries with him!I also work with racehorses, I don’t see racehorses as cuddly ponies, I just think you should rule out all the other factors first before saying the worst about him and if the horse is a bolter then maybe he isn’t for the racecourse but putting a gun to his head is just not the answer! There are so many things you can try with him while he is still a youngster.
Nobody has said that you shouldn’t rule out all other factors yet, rainbow-promises.
So – the horse may be "just a fruitcake"?! That isn’t a chuckling matter and may indeed mean that he should be put down. Fruitcakes can be very dangerous & you should be well aware of that if you work with racehorses.
I get the impression you’re not very old either, in time & with experience you will come to realise that no, not all racehorses, particularly "fruitcakes", can be reschooled in which case they certainly aren’t suitable for "many other things". Indeed, it is exceptionally irresponsible, careless & very dangerous to let a fruitcake loose on a member of the unsuspecting public, they will only cause harm to other people and/or horses. You wouldn’t believe how many people take on an ex-racehorse with dire consequences as they think they are experienced enough to handle a loopy one having ridden ponies all their life. A loopy TB needs someone very experienced in handling racehorses to reschool it or chaos does tend to ensue. A case in point is that of Nakir who had to be destroyed by the British Racing School after being very dangerous and injuring several people.
As TC says, it is quite disturbing that this horse displays such dangerous tendencies at such a young age – it may never do so again but IMO his performance yesterday bodes ill for his future behaviour.
Where do the authorities stand on a case like this SL?
I only ask because (…I don’t know obviously!
) but here and in Australia the horse would be sent back to the trials and have to perform as close to raceday conditions as it can before it was passed to race.Do they do that over there?
I didn’t say it was a laughing matter!
What do you mean with time and experience? I do have experience as it happens I work in a racing yard and have owned horses as a kid, including a TB!, i’m just a firm believer that you shouldn’t put a healthy horse down! Yes, perhaps the horse is dangerous! But my age and experience has nothing to do with my opinion! All i’m saying is that if the horse does prove to be ‘Off his head’ then take him off the track don’t kill him! I don’t think the trainer would have put the horse or jockey in danger if he knew the horse was going to bolt!
Yes, I am aware that bolters are dangerous as I have ridden a few in the past and actually had a nasty fall on one that spooked a couple of years ago.Ok, rainbow-promises ~ if a horse is "off its head" (as you put it) what do you, realistically, propose to do with it? Tell me your opinions on Nakir & what happened to him, as well as what you would have done instead seeing as, in your opinion, one should never be shot merely because it is "off its head". The British Racing School & Jim Lewis combined are inexperienced and not qualified to deal with such a matter then?
My point is that not all horses will respond to the same treatment and yes, no offence meant, in time & with years of experience seeing and dealing with racehorses you will get to see all types of animal (you’d already said you work with racehorses, you’ve said it before, it didn’t need saying again as I’d seen it – with the greatest respect it doesn’t automatically make you experienced though I’m afraid). One person’s fruitcake is a perfectly quiet horse to someone with more experience of handling true nutters, not just ones that can take a hold on the gallops or stick the odd buck in. Anyone who is experienced with horses, racehorses in particular, can sit down & regale others for hours of all the nasty falls they have had after being bolted with, spooked with, whipped round on, reared on, bucked off, yada yada. That doesn’t make all horses that drop people fruitcakes or everyone thats had a nasty fall "experienced"! I’m talking about the real lunatics with a screw loose, they tend to be nasty & completely wrong in the head. Nakir falls into this category as do others I’m afraid and in the long run by far the kindest option for the horse is to have it humanely destroyed before it harms or kills itself [and others] with its antics or, more often than not, ends up being treated horrifically by people who are scared of it and cannot handle it.
Well said SL, I have been trying to think of how to write something along with same lines without loosing my rag and looking like up my own a55 and chippy.
Ive been trying to think of how many horses I would put into the ‘complete nutcase’ category, and from hundreds/maybe thousands I can only think of 4. A lot of others were tricky yes, but basically taught by crap riding.
3 of those were PTS, one with a brain tumour. The other one killed itself before I came to that conclusion, nearly killing me in the process.
We had one that was a complete headcase, put 2 people in hospital at Paul Cole’s, Mark Brisbourne sent it away as no one could ride it. When he broke down badly we wanted to PTS, but the owners wouldn’t let us. He was the loveliest horse to handle and a real character, but insane to even walk up the road. He wasn’t a ‘comapnion’ type – he thrived on work and didnt even do turned out in the summer. We have done our best by him, but he has already gone through 3 different homes as a companion, the first of which tried to put him back into training. Luckily I got wind of it and we got him back, in a right state. It still plays on my mind, many a time I have got in the lorry to pick him up and get the huntsman here, and jibbed.
If a horse is truely dangerous owners have to do the responsible thing. Not many owners knowadays have the land to look after a horse for the rest of its life, and it is naive to think someone else is going to do it. It is extremely irresponsible to pass a horse on with no regard to others safety. Not to mention the fact that, as Francome said, there are a lot of others out there. To keep a horse stuck in the field is time and money, which most of us have only in short supply – there are plenty of others that are, quite blunty, worth more of an effort.I just believe that you should only put the horse down if all else fails in his training/ re-training. But who is to say this horse is a nutcase? He bolted once on the track and could have killed himself and his jockey, yes it’s not act of a quiet hack i know that. But the horse may not do it again, he may be responsive to re-training. None of us know that, I just thought it’s a little too quick to be saying ‘put the horse down’….
As for the British Racing School I don’t understand why an owner would give them a dangerous horse that students would be riding. The British Racing School has also put down 4 horses this year, mostly for colic, I personally think they are too quick at pulling the trigger, treatment was a possibility but there are always complications with money I know that.
Kelly Marks would be able to sort this horse out most probably, and other people like her but again it’s very expensive to get a problem horse treated….But it is a possibility
The BRS and Jim Lewis didn’t take the decision lightly do have Nakir put down – as far as I know he wasn’t a complete loon whilst in training, not that bad at least. He broke bones in at least one person & they decided the only kind course of action was to have him PTS – he wouldn’t have liked being in the field. In my opinion Kelly Marks wouldn’t have had a hope in hell of sorting him out – good she and Monty Roberts may be, they ain’t geniuses and they can’t walk on water like so many disillusioned people think. They apply common sense procedures that closely mirror the horse’s natural instincts, signals, body language & actions.
Interestingly as an aside to that – it makes me laugh when people come up with the old “all horses like being in the field” rubbish. They don’t all love it, far from it! I have a Double Trigger 4yo who can be bit of a handful; when I got him the [pretty clueless!] breeders told me “please turn him out as often as you can; he loves being out at grass”. Well, he’s been out a week now, isn’t eating a blade of grass, is miserable as sin, skinny as hell & spends all his time standing at the gate either asking to come in or cribbing on the gatepost!
The example you mentioned of a nutcase made me laugh, TC – funnily enough pretty much the only horse I’ve been involved in looking after/riding that I would describe as a headcase also came from Coley’s!!! It had been known to flip itself over forwards just to dislodge the rider from its back. Only good thing for it was a bullet but the idiot I worked for at the time sent it to Donny Sales instead where it went to somewhere in Scandinavia. I’ve come across many horrible horse with terrible vices who have come from Cole’s – the majority of staff there [when I saw them ride out every day] weren’t the best and made the horses go a bit mad by the way they rode them. Galloping the living daylights out of them from 2 onwards doesn’t help either. I wouldn’t touch an ex-Cole inmate with a ten foot bargepole – they’re either sour as hell, crippled or nutters!
I wouldn’t touch an ex-Cole inmate with a ten foot bargepole – they’re either sour as hell, crippled or nutters!
Hmmm, Riyadh went through all those phases after I got him from Cole’s , lol. He’s now enjoying his career as a show horse in the ex racer division and doing it successfully. How on earth they got him to do dressage I will never know!
Speaking of Paul Cole nutcases, does anyone know what happened to Barabinka? Banned from racing here after unseating his rider at the stall 3 consecutive times, including on his last start when then bolting the wrong way round the course and almost colliding head on with the other runners.
Afraid I agree with JF, only one thing for horses like that.
As a racing follower, you should really be ashamed of yourself for comments like that.
No, as someone who knows truly how dangerous animals like that can be, and the consequences, I would happily pull the trigger myself.
You know it’s funny how clearly the “racing followers” and experienced horsepeople stand out by what they say on a thread like this.
Racing followers are just that – they watch racing, they might have ridden a few ponies in their time, so they consider themselves experts.
Then you get someone like The Cheekster who from everything she has posted has clearly demonstrated that she is a professional with a wide experience of handling racehorses (yes, that’s racehorses, not ponies, or riding horses, or any other form of dobbin that ambles around the countryside) with a variety of traits & personalities.
You see it is the true horseman that recognises that not all horses are sweet loving creatures and that for some (not many, thankfully) the kindest thing is to put them to sleep. With the best will in the world not every horse can be “sorted out” (viz-a-viz “yeah, I’ll get on it!” which just comes across as some sort of desperate bravado) by the best of riders – some are just plain dangerous and the longer you are involved with horses [racehorses in particular as not only are TBs highly strung they are fit & oated up to the eyeballs] and the more different types you are involved with the more you will come to realise this.
Interestingly I didn’t see The Cheekster say the horse had to be shot – I read the post as saying that if the horse were truly as dangerous as it appeared to show yesterday, then she would have him put down. Not that it was an open and shut case as too many seem to have attributed her as saying.
I think TC should be applauded for offering a professional opinion rather lambasted for it by those with far less experience than her.
Incidentally I’d like to chip in my own ideas about gelding – 1) I agree that in this case in particular the sex of the animal may have very little if anything to do with the matter and 2) each animal should be judged on its merits. I’m an advocate of gelding where possible but it does a colt no harm to be kept entire until two or three if he is of an amenable temperament and is a weak type – it can help them strengthen at that young age to be kept intact.[/i]
Well it’s a good job i’ve not just ridden ‘ponies’ and ‘riding horses’ and ridden all my life, trained at the NRC, and worked and ridden for 5 different trainers, isn’t it? Not to mention a foundation degree in Equine Science.
Well it’s a good job i’ve not just ridden ‘ponies’ and ‘riding horses’ and ridden all my life, trained at the NRC, and worked and ridden for 5 different trainers, isn’t it? Not to mention a foundation degree in Equine Science.
I know exactly what your saying, was made to feel my equine experiences and qualifications were totally invalid and that I was just some average pony rider
When did you train at NRC? I was there back in march, did you know ray? Was Nick Ross there when you were?
No riding/horse experience, no matter how small it is, is irrelevant but the day you stop learning is the day you walk away.
Few mad horses are born mad, they are made mad and consequently no matter how sad it is, there’s little anyone can do.
We have quite a few here for one owner (two different trainers) and they are all nutcases when it comes to the barrier – the common denominator we found out recently was the breaker. Now they are at the stage where the sight of rails and fences and gates sends them stircrazy.
There’s little can be done for these current cases (and they have been worked on by the best) and they will be ‘deleted’ – there’s no room (quite literally) for sentiment on this small an island and it would be a criminal act if they were handed over to a pony club, but at least we know the breaker won’t be getting anymore from this area.
) but here and in Australia the horse would be sent back to the trials and have to perform as close to raceday conditions as it can before it was passed to race.
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