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I read somewhere that Arkle’s course record at Sandown, set carrying 12st 7lbs, still stands today.<br>
Ted
According to the RP website it still does.
3m110y (C) Arkle (06 Nov 1965) 5m 59.00s
"The pair (Arkle & Mill House) met again in the Gallaher Gold Cup at Sandown in November 1965, Arkle was set to concede 16lb to his great rival.
This was the race in which Arkle finally broke Mill House’s heart, slipstreaming the big horse, who was jumping majestically in front, and then swatting him aside like an irritating midge as he strolled past to break the course record by 17 seconds."
Interestingly, now the RP standard for C&D is 6m05s ie 11 secs faster than the record Arkle broke.
Steve <br>
Ian, <br>I was just surprised that you allowed your prose to fall to the level where you sound as if you are quoting Ron Atkinson.
Colin
I was rambling on the other day about Best Mate, implying that it would be almost cruel to have him try for a 3rd Gold Cup or even race again; but I’ve been thinking it ‘s probably the pathetic fallacy. So he loses – may be a few times – would he be inconsolable? Particularly, as he’ll always be everyone’s hero – the Irish too, I’m sure, without detracting from their esteem for Himself.
there was an article by James Lawson (an irishophile or whatever the equivalent is) in the independent yesterday on best mate that manged to name Arkle more times than Best Mate
Now say theres an article on thierry henry that mentions Stanley matthews more times…
Exactly
the arkle business is a deeply boring. great horse …yes
But in black and white
Nicely put! You’re certainly a droll lot.
I want to keep ACR1’s wry comment on disk – though, of course, to me, they’re a commendation.
(Edited by Grimes at 11:48 pm on Mar. 20, 2004)
cLIVEX , a simple question , are u old  enough to have seen Arlke RACE ?
iF YOUR not and have not , then I would reccomend keeping your trap shut !!!
For what its worth , I have seen both ,and in all sincerity i can say he was a stone better
For Petes sake why post drivel , the chasers around today would not have been good enough to compete in any of his Gold cup days
If you dont know ,why guess ??
Ricky
Quote: from robnorth on 8:41 am on Mar. 19, 2004[br]Best Mate is an outstanding chaser by modern standards, setting a level of performance not matched since Arkle,<br>
robnorth,
Have you never heard of Desert Orchid, Carvill’s Hill, Master Oats, Burrough Hill Lad, See More Business?
All five of these chasers produced better performances than Best Mate ever has, during the ‘modern era’.
And unless somebody sticks a rocket up his arse in one of his future races, he never will better them.
Good luck to Best Mate and his connections. It is tremendous for everyone in racing to have a horse capable of such a fantastic historical achievement. I never thought I would see a horse win three Gold Cups in my lifetime.
But why can’t the dreamers on this forum (and beyond) just appreciate the fact that he is just simply a very good horse at best, in a very poor era for staying chasers, and stop talking about him like he is the reincarnation of Pegasus?
Can we not stop these Arkle/Best Mate comparisons? it’s getting really boring now.
I hope Best Mate wins next years Gold Cup, I wonder what will be said then? :scratchchin:
We have a magnificent horse in Best Mate here let’s enjoy him!
Theres only one way that people will ever know if BM is as good as Arkle…turn the Gold Cup into a handicap!<br>Seriously though, lets just enjoy Best Mate now and remember Arkle for the great chaser he was. I certainly don’t care if BM is as good as Arkle, or better than Arkle. It does’nt matter! Onto the BM running in handicaps debate, I don’t think the Hennessy is a suitable race, but I do think Best Mate will run in a handicap, when he is 10 or 11 years old. I have two words for anybody who criticises Henrietta Knight’s training methods…Edredon Bleu. She didnt take the Pipe approach with that horse, now we are still enjoying seeing him win some nice races at 12 years of age. Well done Henrietta
Grasshopper,<br> I do not understand. Basically what you are saying is that because Best Mate is the best chaser in training, he has to burn himself out in handicaps. Edredon Bleu was a champion chaser, I feel that his racing career has been prolonged by the campaigns given to him by Henrietta Knight.
Hi Jairducochetfan,
There is a difference between running a horse in the way that Magical Balliwick was and how Best Mate has been. Desert Orchid, a top class performer, raced about 6 or 7 times a season, often giving weight away to decent horses in handicaps……………and beating them.
Best Mate will probably take the King George/Gold Cup route this year, especially as your namesake is unfortunately out of the equation and if he wins a fourth Gold Cup, I’m afraid his record in future will always be looked on and quite rightly as, ‘he didn’t beat much’.
It is possible to take on horses in handicaps and not be burnt out for the Gold Cup.
He’s a good horse, but I doubt a great one. Would he have given weight away to those horses on Thursday and still won, even with a clear run, I doubt it. He wouldn’t match up to Desert Orchid (Cheltenham excluded), a winner from 2m to 3m 5f, any ground, handicaps or conditions and would have no chance against Arkle.
I think, that in certain horses, handicaps can burn horses out. It may be that BM can stand up well to lots of races in a season, but I would rather see him beat his rivals off level weights than see him slog round Newbury in the Henessey carrying 12 odd stone. If BM runs in a handicap, wins, and does’nt burn himself out or anything, full marks to everyone on here who disagrees with me at the present time, I was wrong. But lets put ourself in Jim Lewis’s shoes, if I were him, I would’nt risk BM in a handicap which may affect his chances in a Gold Cup. I’m not going to harbour any secret thoughts, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE BEST MATE RUN IN A HANDICAP, but I wouldn’t want to risk his well being just so we can see "if he is as good as Arkle". This debate is wearing very thin, and if nothing can beat Best Mate off levels, then its their fault. Take the Formula One situation at the moment. Michael Schumacher has the best car, and is a superior driver. Now ask yourself this question, do they make him start about 45 seconds after everybody else, No. Its up to the other teams to get better. They have introduced rules to try and tighten the gap, but they have’nt directly affected Schumacher. Likewise, its up to the breeders/trainers/owners to come up with something to beat Best Mate. BM should not be persecuted for being a top class 3 mile chaser. By the tone of some posts, it seems BM is a villain, there to be shot at.
Del,<br> I think that is quite a wild comment to make. Any distance, any track, any going? What about 4 miles around Cheltenham? Do we know if Best Mate would improve over 4 miles? No. So how on earth can you make such an unfounded statement?
Just a thought, if we ran a poll to determine which horse was better B.M. or Arkle, the outcome would depend on the ages of people taking part. Anyone, like me, who saw Arkle in his prime would never vote for any other horse, he was awesome. Like wise anyone who did not see him, and only saw Best Mate would vote for B.M. So there is no real answer to this question, and ratings et al are just grist to the mill of argument.Let’s just enjoy Bestie while we can, and number him among our favourites with all the others who risk life and limb for our enjoyment.Pete.:cool: <br>
Del,<br> Yes, I can see where you are coming from, but we do not know if Best Mate is better over more than 3m 2f. That is why I thought that you’re statement was unfounded.
Henrietta has sated that Bm is more of an "elegant" horse rather than a sturdy one. Frankly, although we would like to see handicaps tackled, Gold Cups will do, wont they?
Suede. he is not just a spring horse around cheltenham….a couple of Grade one wins at Xmas proves that
Ricky…thankfully im not old enough to remember bloody arkle. if i was i would be wearing chums trousers and would soon be losing all my memory anyway.
More seriously, you missed my point. Its the continued looking back at another era which grates. If arkle why not golden Miller? James Lawtons article was frankly boring….zzzzzzzzz
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