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  • #11941
    % MAN
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    • Total Posts 5104

    I fully expect to be shot down in flames for this – however I make no apologies for my views on this one.

    I do not generally have much sympathy with people who have large amounts of debt.

    Personally my view is there only two purchases in life where the use of credit is justified for personal spending.

    The first is a mortgage, which for obvious reasons is a necessity, however as the loan is secured against the property there is greater incentive to repay.

    The second is a car loan. It could be argued a car is not a necessity, however most do need one. Like a house loan I believe car loans should be secured, this time against the car.

    All other credit is, in my own personal view, unjustified. Quite simply if you cannot afford something you go without it. Using the examples Marble quoted, plasma TV’s are not essentials, jacuzzi’s are not essentials, even holidays are not essentials.

    If you cannot afford to pay for them you do without them – plain and simple.

    #237454
    Pompete
    Member
    • Total Posts 2391

    I just do not understand why credit merchants who rack up thousands upon thousands on plasma t/v’s and jacuzzi’s get any more sympathy than a gambler who blew his weeks wages.

    I’m not sure they do Marb.

    But, if so its origins probably lay in the fact Gambling has historically been portrayed, with varying strength by various groups, as an immoral activity and was of course until fairly recent illegal in this country.

    Most people still seem conservative and reactionary when it comes to gambling – and there is nothing they love more than sticking their moral noses into other peoples business. Boring *****.

    #237493
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    I have to disagree Paul. I will use my credit card to let’s say buy a new washing machine if the old hotpoint packs up and I don’t have any spare cash for six weeks or so.
    So for me, credit works.
    As for doing your weeks wages on a horse, you must be very stupid!

    #237496
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    I have to disagree Paul. I will use my credit card to let’s say buy a new washing machine if the old hotpoint packs up and I don’t have any spare cash for six weeks or so.
    So for me, credit works.
    As for doing your weeks wages on a horse, you must be very stupid!

    #237511
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2165

    I will use my credit card to let’s say buy a new washing machine if the old hotpoint packs up and I don’t have any spare cash for six weeks or so.
    So for me, credit works.

    lolly,

    i fear like it works for you like it works for gordon brown – neither of you seems to realise when its time to get the washboard out.

    best regards

    wit

    #237513
    Grasshopper
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2316

    I don’t agree Marb.

    Credit is there essentially to provide additional disposable income that the debtor doesn’t have the means to find him/herself.

    He/she can spend that extra disposable income any way he/she chooses; betting on the nags, going on holiday, plasma screen gogglers, fags and booze, white goods, new wheels etc.

    There was two problems with credit: the banks were not disciplined in their lending, and too many people were undisciplined in their borrowing.

    The first is a systemic failure in the banking industry, but the second is down to the individual making a personal choice. Those that got themselves into trouble with debt, have to stand-up and be accountable for their actions – it’s not like the banks forced them to take out loans/cards at gunpoint.

    It’s perhaps a cliche, but it’s nevertheless a truism – there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

    #237515
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    LOL @ wit .. :D

    Usury, is most unholy … I agree with Paul, debt needs to be avoided in life generally.

    Student loans are a terrible thing to saddle a young person with, they are too young at that age to know they are being stitched up for years.

    #237545
    Grasshopper
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2316

    I don’t think the sympathy you suggest for the "unfortunate credit card user" exists, Marble.

    The vitriol in the media has rightly been directed towards the Banks, and their negligent lending policies. The coverage hasn’t, in my opion, extended to suggesting those who took advantage of said credit were unfortunate dupes. It certainly hasn’t suggested that people were ‘drawn’ or ‘lured’ into taking-up credit, without knowing exactly what they were getting into. You are reading something into the coverage that I do not see myself.

    As for the moral aspects, your conclusion that there is a line between credit card debt and gambling debt, only applies if gambling debts are run-up on credit cards. Regardless, as a fledgling Tory, you surely appreciate that it is a choice for the individual to decide how to spend his or her disposable income, and not for the State to determine.

    The issue of credit card debt remains one of discipline i.e. not having enough to say "I don’t really need this". The issue of gambling debt is similarly generally one of lack of discipline, but it is not a case of cause and effect, imo. They are mutually exclusive problems, with the same root cause – absence of personal discipline.

    In the retail sector, banking should not be anything like a "punt" – indeed, it should be very straightforward. You lend (deposit) your money with an institution, and they give you a modest gratuity (interest) for extending them the favour. Dead simple really.

    The current problems are largely due to a combination of unbelievably crass property lending policies (100%+ mortgages) driven by Executives who did not understand the industry, and the lunacy of the CDS/CDO markets in Investment banking, where absolutely no-one knew what the **** was going on (other than a handful of very smart cookies who saw it for what it was).

    On this aspect, I’m with Vince Cable and others. The Investment Banking arms of major banks should be split away from the Retail divisions, in order that the exotic market ‘gamblers’ cannot have an effect on traditional depositors i.e. the general public and smal/medium business.

    #237580
    Grasshopper
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2316

    It’s all "debt" at the end of the day, and as far as I can tell, the government are not suggesting one kind of debt is more diginified than another.

    It’s all in your head.

    #237719
    Grasshopper
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2316

    I’m not arguing for or against anything, just trying to be objective as I see it. It’s totally fair to start topics challenging some of the "my-way-or-the-highway" hypocritical shite this government wheels out day after day, in my view.

    I’ll consider re-engaging once you have figured out the location of the contradiction in this comment.

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