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‘I take it that The Girls have become The Ladies?’
This one has always puzzled me. Is ‘girls’ supposed to be somehow offensive or demeaning? Women in team sports often refer to their teammates as ‘the girls’ (as do men and ‘the boys’) and it’s the same in ‘real life’ when they are referring to their friendship group.
As for the Shergar Cup, watch it, don’t watch it. Plenty else on.
Just as an aside, and as a general rule of thumb for life – and I doubt if this has changed over the years – if men spoke about women the way some women speak about some other women men would, at best, be labelled chauvinists and, at worst, outright misogynists.
It’s a subject I effortlessly steer well clear of as walking though a live minefield really would be less hazardous.
The same thing applies to race, religion and orientation as well as gender – I try to avoid discussing any of these things but, if given no other choice, just tell me what the latest acceptable terminology is and I’ll use it because, you know, “whatever.”
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I think there are scenarios where using the word “girl” is genuinely an issue, but that has led to widespread confusion about much more innocent usage such as in the examples Richard gives. The whole thing is a minefield though as Ian points out.
Consider an older man working in an office environment describing a younger female colleague as a “good girl”, where he would not call a younger male colleague a “good boy”. I would say this usage was inappropriate whether it was intended to be patronising or not.
As for the choice of team name for Saturday, instead of girls or ladies, what is wrong with “women’s”?!
Even the scenario described by Marlingford is not clear cut. Some women might would such talk inappropriate or offensive. Other women might not have any problem with it.
If I recall correctly, the Shergar Cup used to have cheerleaders assigned to each team. I think that was stopped a few years ago but I wonder if anyone actually complained? My guess is no one did but Ascot and the BHA decided to avoid the risk of a contrived social media outcry.
CAS, even if the individual woman in my example wasn’t bothered, I’d still say that it was clear cut that the language was sexist and inappropriate.
I take your point that when the individuals involved know each others’ views it might not be an issue, but I’d suggest this choice of language would be best avoided in the workplace full stop. I can’t imagine any decent HR teams or policies would condone it.
Team Totty probably isn’t too offensive plus it can apply to both genders.
The more I know the less I understand.
@marlingford exactly.
I refer to female animals, such as dogs and horses, as sweety/ lady when interacting with them. I wouldn’t dream of referring to a human that way.
Archipenko should we have a ladies/girls team because we don’t have a separated mens team. Jockeys are supposedly equal regardless of gender so why have a team dedicated to females.
The more I know the less I understand.
I don’t understand why you are interpreting this as anyone saying that women jockeys are better or worse RTB.
It’s just an arbitrary way of creating separate teams, much like the geographical divisions.
I’m not suggesting anything of the kind Marlingford.
The press and media try and fail miserably to eliminate gender recognition when it comes to jockeys. One minute they are all equal the next, the first female jockey to win xyz to highlight the point they are female, why.
Twenty odd years ago when this joke of the Shergar Cup was dreamt up it may have had some relevance but today it does not, the female jockeys should be incorporated into the other teams.
As an aside why do we have Great Britain and Ireland, why don’t we have an Ireland team. Ireland is an independent country so why are they tagged on to Great Britain, why don’t we have Europe and Ireland it would seem more apt.The more I know the less I understand.
Thanks RTB, I understand your point better now
The whole dividing up of the teams is so artificial and arbitrary. When it’s for something as meaningless as this, it doesn’t particularly concern me that they are using sex as one of the factors.
But I see where you are coming from now, and thanks for taking the time to reply.
The point I am making is that it’s patronising to name the women’s team “Ladies”.
According to Google:
“Lady” is used much more than “gentleman,” which is still perceived as outdated. This is a problem — it adds to damaging notions of femininity, where women are still meant to be, or are inherently, demure and gentle.
In other professional sports, women’s teams get called just that – women’s teams.
“The point I am making is that it’s patronising to name the women’s team “Ladies”.”
As stated above, I generally avoid debates like this like the plague and one of the reasons why is that what is offensive to one female isn’t necessarily offensive to another.
Females aren’t homogenous – no one female speaks for all females – that’s true of males or any other category people can be put into.
For every strident, well-educated, feminist, there’s a female at the other end of the spectrum on this on a council estate blatantly living off her sexuality.
The former might consider the latter in need of educating – the latter might regard the former as badly in need of a spray tan!
It’s a complex subject in a complex world.
Best to just use best endeavours to be polite and respectful to each individual in terms each individual deems polite and respectful – but it’s often easier said than done.
In Point-to-Point, they’ve had Ladies Opens for years – I doubt the title would persist in the 21st century if any of the participants found the title offensive.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“damaging notions of femininity, where women are still meant to be, or are inherently, demure and gentle.”
What exactly’s wrong with being “demure and gentle”? How is being nice “damaging”?
This is just another example of toxic masculinity- so does everyone have to be aggressive and domineering now?
It is not the name given to the team that gets me it is the fact a Ladies Team exists in a sport where it is trying to put both genders on the same footing, it is an antiquated view. The Racing Post has the three of them splashed across the front page.
The more I know the less I understand.
Is ladies day somewhat outdated?
is it any different to any other day at the races?
I’ve not come across a lads day anywhereHorse Racing is one if not the only one where men and women compete together at the top level.
I agree with RTB BUT Maybe the girls want a ladies team..
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